Veterans hand back medals

[Vince Green]

Very true,as i age i note i am becoming a bit more philosophical.

 

As a young soldier i felt no fear and was ready to do battle,later on after those wishes had been granted i advised young friends not to wish for such things,but they didn't listen ,why should they they were young and felt no fear.

Armies since the beginning of time have harnessed the willingness of young men to rally behind a flag. In some ways the discussions about young Muslim men being radicalised is no different to what happened to my grandfather at the outbreak of WW1 or my father and uncle in 1939.

[ordnance]

Very true. I recently caught glimpses of a programme about some Irish bloke who is quite well to do now within the arts, who said there were many causes for which he would have felt justified in killing, as a young man in Ireland, but now that he was much older he was so relieved he hadn't.

 

That would depend on what he meant as a cause. People will kill to protect themselves or family, I can't think of any cause I thought I would kill for when younger or now. Thankfully the vast majority in Northern Ireland thought the same, or things would have being a lot worse. There are also people that were responsible for hundreds of murders and justified it then still do and still and have no regrets.

 

Lastly, McGuinness was asked to reflect on his actions in the IRA. He has no regrets about his personal actions or about the actions of the IRA because they were in response to British atrocities. “Do I have any regrets about joining the IRA… no I don’t.”

 

 

[Scully]

That would depend on what he meant as a cause. People will kill to protect themselves or family, I can't think of any cause I thought I would kill for when younger or now. Thankfully the vast majority in Northern Ireland thought the same, or things would have being a lot worse. There are also people that were responsible for hundreds of murders and justified it then still do and still and have no regrets.

 

 

Fair enough, but he obviously did feel he had a cause, regardless of what we would regard as justified or not. It was how he felt at the time.

I'm not judging him in any way, merely passing on the comment.

I was very keen on joining the armed forces as a 16 year old; I'm so glad now that I never did.

[EMcC]

I rather enjoyed the Army when I was young and lots of things were going on all over the world and I was part of that.

But as I get older, the 26 years I served feel as if I made no difference other than to have lost a few friends.

I have medals, worn for official parades while serving but only once, at my brothers miltary funeral, since demob in '83.

As I feel I earned my medals I will keep them but even if I threw them away who would care ? probably only my kids who would probably like to have them to play with after I have gone.

[Les*1066]

They should have been fined for littering.

 

As for their actions, they were their medals so they can do what they like with them, but throwing down their regimental berets shows total disrespect for all the service personnel who have given their lives in the service of this country.

 

They may very well be the only members of their organization - I don't know and I don't care - but I don't believe that they have done themselves any favours.

[Scully]

but throwing down their regimental berets shows total disrespect for all the service personnel who have given their lives in the service of this country.

 

 

Not sure I agree with that really. I feel they've earned the right to choose, and that is primarily what fighting wars is all about; people have lost their lives in the cause to ensure others have that freedom of choice.

The fact some were never given that freedom of choice ( unless they became conscientious objectors and accepted the stigma or shame that sometimes went with it; 'What did you do in the war Daddy?') is possibly lost on some.

[welsh1]

They should have been fined for littering.

 

As for their actions, they were their medals so they can do what they like with them, but throwing down their regimental berets shows total disrespect for all the service personnel who have given their lives in the service of this country.

 

They may very well be the only members of their organization - I don't know and I don't care - but I don't believe that they have done themselves any favours.

 

I don't think they have shown disrespect to any personnel who have died,what they are trying to get across is that governments are quick to act when there may be other ways not

just war.they are trying to show young people that war is not glamorous and that they the young people will just be used and thrown aside.

 

Someone on a military site reminded us of some of the graffiti seen in NI when the troubles were ongoing "Fighting for peace is like ******* for virginity"

[walshie]

Is that Ben Griffin the ex SAS guy who wanted the kudos of being in an elite force like that but didn't actually want to fight with them?

 

The more cynical among us might say if they have these views, why did they ever join the armed forces? Surely being in the Army isn't about your personal views, and if you hate the idea of war so much, become a milkman. I hope they also want to give back all the "blood money" they earned while serving, or is it just their hats?.

 

They, more than most people, should know that however desirable peace is, it isn't always attainable.

[welsh1]

Is that Ben Griffin the ex SAS guy who wanted the kudos of being in an elite force like that but didn't actually want to fight with them?

 

The more cynical among us might say if they have these views, why did they ever join the armed forces? Surely being in the Army isn't about your personal views, and if you hate the idea of war so much, become a milkman. I hope they also want to give back all the "blood money" they earned while serving, or is it just their hats?.

 

They, more than most people, should know that however desirable peace is, it isn't always attainable.

 

To be fair to Griffin he did do tours of iraq afgan macedonia and NI,but it is true he did refuse to do another tour.Their point is they have seen "the futility" of war and the damage it does to all people ,and unless people are educated to what goes on then they will only have information fed to them by governments.Griffin was going to make a speech about what he did in Iraq on behalf of this government, but the government went to the high court and he has an injunction on him which means he cannot disclose what he did while in the SAS,personally i think that if he was all for disclosure of what happens he would tell all and then take the consequences,after all that is what he is trying to expose and bring to peoples attention.

[johnnythefox70]

Yes they were quite right to throw them away, i wouldnt be keen on trying to impress people with these so called 'medals' just for belonging to a group of so called heroes 'fighting for this country' and going around and killing thousands of innocent human beings. Yes thats definatly something to be proud of isnt it? Good on em I say and i wish many more out there would wake up and smell the coffee and be willing to do the same. World peace will not be achieved by the likes of blair bush cameron obama etc

[walshie]

 

To be fair to Griffin he did do tours of iraq afgan macedonia and NI,but it is true he did refuse to do another tour.Their point is they have seen "the futility" of war and the damage it does to all people ,and unless people are educated to what goes on then they will only have information fed to them by governments.Griffin was going to make a speech about what he did in Iraq on behalf of this government, but the government went to the high court and he has an injunction on him which means he cannot disclose what he did while in the SAS,personally i think that if he was all for disclosure of what happens he would tell all and then take the consequences,after all that is what he is trying to expose and bring to peoples attention.

 

Fair enough, but you take the Queen's shilling, you do your country's work. if you don't like it, don't do it at all. Don't do it then bleat about it.

 

Yes they were quite right to throw them away, i wouldnt be keen on trying to impress people with these so called 'medals' just for belonging to a group of so called heroes 'fighting for this country' and going around and killing thousands of innocent human beings. Yes thats definatly something to be proud of isnt it? Good on em I say and i wish many more out there would wake up and smell the coffee and be willing to do the same. World peace will not be achieved by the likes of blair bush cameron obama etc

 

"Going round killing thousands of human beings?"

 

Yes, serving your country IS something to be proud of. World peace? What are you? A Miss World contestant?

 

If you think the UK would be better off as a toothless, defenceless target for anyone who fancied a bit of us, then you are more deluded than your post suggests.

[ordnance]

 

Yes they were quite right to throw them away, i wouldnt be keen on trying to impress people with these so called 'medals' just for belonging to a group of so called heroes 'fighting for this country' and going around and killing thousands of innocent human beings.

There are lots of soldiers that put their lives on the line to protect innocent men women and children. They did it here for years. What's your answer have no army no defence.

[Hamster]

There are lots of soldiers that put their lives on the line to protect innocent men women and children. They did it here for years. What's your answer have no army no defence.

 

Every country needs an Army, the bigger the better within financial constraints and reason BUT it needs to be deployed against invaders and real enemies, the Iraqi's and Afghans were neither.

[johnnythefox70]

There are lots of soldiers that put their lives on the line to protect innocent men women and children. They did it here for years. What's your answer have no army no defence.

Funny how switzerlands never been attacked isnt it? Maybe because they dont sent an army to occupy countries and shoot everything and everyone that moves in the name of w.o.m.d? Maybe because they keep away from them nasty gun ho yanks? Maybe because they dont poke their noses into other countrys affairs? There is no place in this day and age for the need of armies and all these wars, we are getting like modern day naziis.

We should seriously take a leaf from their books and look for world peace without killing people.

[ordnance]

Funny how switzerlands never been attacked isnt it? Maybe because they dont sent an army to occupy countries and shoot everything and everyone that moves in the name of w.o.m.d?

No they just sat back and let others do the fighting, defeating the Nazis etc.

 

Switzerland served as a repository for Jewish capital smuggled out of Nazi Germany and the states threatened by it, and also for vast quantities of gold and other valuables plundered from Jews and others all over Europe. Right up until the end of the war, Switzerland laundered hundreds of millions of dollars in stolen assets, including gold taken from the central banks of German-occupied Europe.

There is no place in this day and age for the need of armies and all these wars, we are getting like modern day naziis.

 

Probably the most naive post I have seen in a while, I know we will tell all countries armies to disband, and we will all live happily ever after.

Edited July 13, 2015 by ordnance

[welsh1]

Yes they were quite right to throw them away, i wouldnt be keen on trying to impress people with these so called 'medals' just for belonging to a group of so called heroes 'fighting for this country' and going around and killing thousands of innocent human beings. Yes thats definatly something to be proud of isnt it? Good on em I say and i wish many more out there would wake up and smell the coffee and be willing to do the same. World peace will not be achieved by the likes of blair bush cameron obama etc

 

If you have been in the military i don't mind you saying those things ,but if you are just a buck **** civvy ranting his mouth off about illegal wars and running soldiers down then you are an ****,no soldier calls themselves heroes they are doing their job, they do it sometimes under very difficult and violent conditions,and they don't hand out so called medals they award medals to show that you have been in a theatre of war.Soldiers follow orders and the British Soldier is respected the world over for being the most versatile and professional of any Army,and they have respect from all other forces in the world.

 

You want to argue about the legalities of war do that with politicians.But until you have been where those soldiers with their "so called medals" have been wind your neck in you pillock.

 

What do you do for a job?

 

I have tried very hard to not abuse the swear filter,admin if i have overstepped it i apologise feel free to remove it.

[walshie]

 

If you have been in the military i don't mind you saying those things ,but if you are just a buck **** civvy ranting his mouth off about illegal wars and running soldiers down then you are an ****,no soldier calls themselves heroes they are doing their job, they do it sometimes under very difficult and violent conditions,and they don't hand out so called medals they award medals to show that you have been in a theatre of war.Soldiers follow orders and the British Soldier is respected the world over for being the most versatile and professional of any Army,and they have respect from all other forces in the world.

 

You want to argue about the legalities of war do that with politicians.But until you have been where those soldiers with their "so called medals" have been wind your neck in you pillock.

 

What do you do for a job?

 

I have tried very hard to not abuse the swear filter,admin if i have overstepped it i apologise feel free to remove it.

 

Well said that man!

[ozzy518]

Everyone that joins the Military does so of his own accord. No one forces them to. There is no compulsory National Service. You join the military knowing that you are basically a tool to be used in whatever way the Government says. There is every expectation that Active service will be required. Surely no one is naive enough to believe that their career will be spent windsurfing, drinking and sunbathing, despite the recruitment ads.

No one forces you to stay in the Military either. If you don't like it, leave. Simple.

As for these 3 whom the OP refers, what they have done, they done for thier own reasons.

If they choose to turn thier backs on thier former regiments, former mates that's a matter for them and thier conscience .

Whatever thier present beliefs are ,all 3 have at least served, earned both thier cap badge and thier medals.

I still have my old beret and medals. They will be going to my Son when I get Orders from Upstairs to deploy Heavenward, though im not ruling out a much warmer posting.

Edited July 13, 2015 by ozzy518

[grrclark]

I respect that the ex servicemen in question have earned the right to do as they please with their possessions after being in service, but I can't help feeling that it is all just a rather pointless exercise. If it is some sort of cathartic process that helps them come to terms with their selves and find a bit of inner balance then more power to their elbow, but if they believe it is some sort of meaningful gesture that will shape how human kind behave then they are painfully naive and quite frankly daft, a bit like Johnythefox70's posts.

 

I don't think that anybody would argue that war is futile when considered remotely and dispassionately, but ever since man picked up a bigger stick or heavier rock than the fella next to him there has been conflict. Sometimes that is driven by necessity through a desperate desire to survive or other times it is simply just through wanting something more than they currently have. We are no different to any other animal species in that context, but we have evolved to a much higher and complex social order.

 

If being absolutely objective then everything we do in life outside of eating, drinking, sleeping and procreating is all rather pointless when broken down to basics. So long as we have material ambition, whether modest or greedy then we will be combative in some way shape or form; what is also certain is that some other fella is going to be as equally combative and that leads to conflict.

 

We need military forces because other people will always have them and the most basic thing in human nature is the guy with the biggest stick calls the shots, no matter how well meaning we all start out. To suggest that denouncing military service by throwing away vestments and awards will somehow change that is about as effective as throwing poop at the moon.

 

Personally I think the manner in which they made their public statement is disrespectful, although I have never served I respect all those that have and do for the commitment and contribution that they give to our society and I think the public display in denouncing and dismissing that by the three men in this story is rather dismissive of that.

 

I think we all understand that there are differing thoughts and opinions as to decisions made at the top level and enacted by those further down, but it has always been such and always will be.

 

Throwing berets and medals on the pavement outside number 10 is just a show of petulant nonsense.

[ozzy518]

Excellent post .

[djrwood]

Yes they were quite right to throw them away, i wouldnt be keen on trying to impress people with these so called 'medals' just for belonging to a group of so called heroes 'fighting for this country' and going around and killing thousands of innocent human beings. Yes thats definatly something to be proud of isnt it? Good on em I say and i wish many more out there would wake up and smell the coffee and be willing to do the same. World peace will not be achieved by the likes of blair bush cameron obama etc

Takes a bit to get me riled but this post managed it! Thankfully reading your next post about army's of the world gave me the assurance you're away with the fairies and therefore I should appreciate the naiveity in your original words.

 

As the son of a man who has dedicated the last 37 years of his life to the Air Force and is still actively serving and completing tours of duty against isis, I find your derogatory words massively offensive. My dad has served in both gulf wars, multiple tours of Afghanistan and Libya, each time leaving his family and friends and having many near misses where by his life was put in danger. He does this for queen, country and his squadron. He may not agree with the reasons he's out there to start with but he's a serviceman not a politician. He has earned his medals and is without doubt one of the so called heroes you mentioned before.

 

If you think the likes of isis are going to put down their weapons because the west have decided they want world peace you are deluded. This is regardless of striking up the argument if we hadn't of medaled in the first place they wouldn't exist. That's like saying if your auntie had a willy she'd be your uncle. Isis do exist and are a threat to everyone within this country. Everyone of them needs killing and when you find the last one kill his goat as well! They will not stop until we are dead and if things continue in Africa it's likely to extend the Islamic state. I lost a very close friend who was blown up by the ******** in the attack in the BP plant in Algeria. he wasn't a military man, just a western civilian and they still killed him.

 

As for the OP, I'm the same as many others. Couldn't really care less about the throwing of medals and berets. They are only items of not treated with the respect they deserve. If this is the way these three guys want to reconcile the things they have done that they cannot come to terms with then that's their choice of therapy. Who am I or anyone else to say otherwise.

 

The freedoms that we have to day, have been earnt and given to us by men and women serving our country and we must never forget their sacrifice. I think a tour of the grave yards in Belgium or a look round auschwitz might give you a little bit or perspective and let you ask the question, what would today be like if all those so called heroes that battled the Germans hadn't bothered?

Edited July 13, 2015 by djrwood

[johnnythefox70]

 

If you have been in the military i don't mind you saying those things ,but if you are just a buck **** civvy ranting his mouth off about illegal wars and running soldiers down then you are an ****,no soldier calls themselves heroes they are doing their job, they do it sometimes under very difficult and violent conditions,and they don't hand out so called medals they award medals to show that you have been in a theatre of war.Soldiers follow orders and the British Soldier is respected the world over for being the most versatile and professional of any Army,and they have respect from all other forces in the world.

 

You want to argue about the legalities of war do that with politicians.But until you have been where those soldiers with their "so called medals" have been wind your neck in you pillock.

 

What do you do for a job?

 

I have tried very hard to not abuse the swear filter,admin if i have overstepped it i apologise feel free to remove it.

I have an opinion you have an opinion, you are entitled to one same as me right?

I belive in world peace as you belive in glorifying war and protecting our war criminals

I have full respect for any ex services personel who have fought to protect us (but this has not happened in the last 70years) and if the truth known all these so called 'theatres' you were supposed to be in are all about power, oil, wealth etc etc.belive me i am holding back as i do not wish to get into a ping pong argument. If you cant accept other people wish for world peace and have a diffrent opinion to you then its simple.....stick your poxy little tincan medals up your *** and.do one...end of

[welsh1]

Everyone that joins the Military does so of his own accord. No one forces them to. There is no compulsory National Service. You join the military knowing that you are basically a tool to be used in whatever way the Government says. There is every expectation that Active service will be required. Surely no one is naive enough to believe that their career will be spent windsurfing, drinking and sunbathing, despite the recruitment ads.

No one forces you to stay in the Military either. If you don't like it, leave. Simple.

As for these 3 whom the OP refers, what they have done, they done for thier own reasons.

If they choose to turn thier backs on thier former regiments, former mates that's a matter for them and thier conscience .

Whatever thier present beliefs are ,all 3 have at least served, earned both thier cap badge and thier medals.

I still have my old beret and medals. They will be going to my Son when I get Orders from Upstairs to deploy Heavenward, though im not ruling out a much warmer posting.

 

You can always pop in the Sapper bar and have a pint with us,though it might be quite crowded

I have an opinion you have an opinion, you are entitled to one same as me right?

I belive in world peace as you belive in glorifying war and protecting our war criminals

I have full respect for any ex services personel who have fought to protect us (but this has not happened in the last 70years) and if the truth known all these so called 'theatres' you were supposed to be in are all about power, oil, wealth etc etc.belive me i am holding back as i do not wish to get into a ping pong argument. If you cant accept other people wish for world peace and have a diffrent opinion to you then its simple.....stick your poxy little tincan medals up your a## and.do one...end of

A lady's rude bits

Edited July 13, 2015 by welsh1

[djrwood]

I have an opinion you have an opinion, you are entitled to one same as me right?

I belive in world peace as you belive in glorifying war and protecting our war criminals

I have full respect for any ex services personel who have fought to protect us (but this has not happened in the last 70years) and if the truth known all these so called 'theatres' you were supposed to be in are all about power, oil, wealth etc etc.belive me i am holding back as i do not wish to get into a ping pong argument. If you cant accept other people wish for world peace and have a diffrent opinion to you then its simple.....stick your poxy little tincan medals up your a## and.do one...end of

For someone that believes in world peace your not half confrontational

[ordnance]

I have full respect for any ex services personel who have fought to protect us (but this has not happened in the last 70years)

British soldiers were stationed here to help keep the peace, did they make mistakes yes, but overall they served bravely and did prevent the situation spiraling out of control saving many lives. PS I am sure it was less than 70 years ago.