scotslad Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 I can't see why a ban on the sale of duck would ever come about. But thats exactly wot some on here were suggesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) A friend of mine was recently invited on a 650 bird duck day. No doubt a very expensive invitation. He politely declined though. I don't think many real sportsmen would want to shoot reared ducks. I've beaten on many shoots that have tried them and all have been awful. Plenty of bad pheasant shoots out there, but I've never heard of a good duck shoot. I've done a fair bit of wildfowling and shot wild duck on fed ponds and it's a fantastic bit of sport. Never big numbers and always memorable. Reared duck though are hopeless. Edited September 8, 2015 by Tim Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 I have an acquaintance who made himself a fair bit of dosh by using his considerable brain. Amongst other things he bought himself a farm and took on two keepers to rear pheasants and duck. Quite who was there I cannot imagine but I heard that on one day the bag was over nine hundred duck. For the last three years I have been unable to attend his shoot due to 'diary clashes'. Now that I have moved further away I have other excuses for not attending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 A friend of mine was recently invited on a 650 bird duck day. No doubt a very expensive invitation. He politely declined though. I don't think many real sportsmen would want to shoot reared ducks. I've beaten on many shoots that have tried them and all have been awful. Plenty of bad pheasant shoots out there, but I've never heard of a good duck shoot. I've done a fair bit of wildfowling and shot wild duck on fed ponds and it's a fantastic bit of sport. Never big numbers and always memorable. Reared duck though are hopeless. And there we have it, yet again....'real sportsmen'. I give up, I really do. We deserve everything we get, and rest assured, in time we'll get it. Gordon friggin' Bennett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Ok then. How about experienced shots? I don't know of or have met anyone who has any experience or real interest in shooting who would be interested in that kind of shooting. I think there is a market for rich and inexperienced or occasional shots who want a big flashy day, and it's a market that's well catered for. Don't have a problem with shooting as farming in the sense of the size of the bag, but as sport it wouldn't be for many people because of the cost and the type of shooting offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Reared duck can provide exciting and very testing shooting if its properly managed. The trouble is most keepers are so pheasant\partridge orientated they do not have the knowledge or desire to go about the job correctly. back in the 1970 a friend and I used to rear a few hundred duck and put them down on a unshot marshland section of the farm. Once they started to feather up the duck were put onto a release pond and rarely saw a human. Food was put into the pond from behnd a thick reed screen. From 4 weeks the only food was corn , no pellets and the duck were expected to forage for much of their own food along the manay dykes. Once the duck started to fly they were flushed once a week with dogs from dykes on other parts of the farm and by September the duck would take flight at the sign of a human at 100 yards or more. Feeding was reduced in the release area from September and small amounts fed in several sites across the farm and the duck started normal flighting habbits and acted like wild birds. Bags were limited to no more than 10 birds per gun ( usualy 2 guns ) and the duck shot on flight lines rather than on the fed areas. Perhaps the best sport came at the end of the season ( the final shoot ) when in an effort to reduce the number of drakes and crossbreds ( there will allways be a few crossbreds from the local Broads). The duck were walked off the release area unshot. They would flight to a Broad about a mile away and start to return after an hour or so , but it had to be done in a good wind or the duck would be too high as we waited for them on the flightlines. One friend ( who would hatch our eggs for us ) who was a very keen game shot would often comment he had never seen better duck flighting and he found the birds difficult and testing targets and often were just too good for him. Not wildfowling true , but correctly managed reared duck can provide very sporting shooting. The secret it is do not over feed the duck , minimise contact with people and do not over do it. In addition we liked to have 25-30 pairs of mallard left at the end of the season partly as breeding stock and partly to intergrate into the wild population , which gave an infusion of new wild blood every season. Edited September 8, 2015 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Must admit only been on the 1 estate that has really bothered with duck other than an occasional drive, but i can honestly say after 2/3 shoots there is absolutely nothing wrong with the duck, a serious ammount of wild duck in this area so possibe the tame ones spend time flying with them.This year the keeper has duck on the whistle so will be driven and be even better than they usually are, right from the start. The guns that shoot there are experienced and keep coming back all throu the season. Like all forms of shooting esp at commercail levels there will always be some poorer birds, but u get that even on lowly DIY syndicates u just leave them a few weeks they're soon flying fine. U talk about reared and wild duck as if u can all tell the difference, i know 2 neighbouring estates/duck guides sell a lot of smaller 'wild' duck days that are great sport yet when the big shoot never released any/as many all these 'wild' duck days stopped I have shot on a 600 duck day, it was a early season kepers day so more than ur 8/10 guns shooting and we squeezed in 2 days of drives, it was a fantastic day, but i just shot birds i wanted to shoot almost every drive i stopped shooting early (almost every drive after 10-15 ish shells) and went to pick up with my dogs, still plenty of shooting going on but no one is forcing anyone to shoot birds. Even now years later i can still mind a few of the birds i shot that day, no atter wot shoot i go to i just shoot birds that i think are sporting yet within my capabilities, i'm more than happy to let either low or high birds go without shooting at them. I remember 1 moroing picking up with my gun on a early morning drive before breakfast, i had a few guns with me and knocked down the first few ducks althou soon they where too good for me so i stopped shooting yet my mate and shoot captain who are both better shots than me where still knocking them down but these where 'tame reared' ducks. So they can be very sporting even when the numbers get biger, but i do know all shoots are not like that How many of u have seen a 12th Aug grouse fly? Compared to a sept/oct grouse they are like a completely different bird Finally u go on about big bags etc And no doubt sometimes the bags seem/are excessive BUT if u have say 10 guns shooting, say averaging 6 birds per drive each (not really a lot, 1 right left and a few singles?) by end of a 5 drive day ur 300 birds with ducks possibly doing 6+? drives a day. Ur not long in the numbers creeping up. Even at the other end of spectrum a rough 50 bird day, only 1 bird per drive for 10 guns/5 drive day, and i know it never really works like that Edited September 8, 2015 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Why not ring released mallard and only allow them to be sold? I realise you could probably put a ring on a dead bird but it's the only thing I could think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) I see both sides of this argument but am leaning towards Tim's side. Perhaps it's because I have seen the semi-tame reared ducks used as bag fillers, the guns, who have missed most of the "very average" pheasants we send right over them, can now boast about the two "left and rights" they got on the ducks....... I don't know why you say "We deserve everything we get, and rest assured, in time we'll get it. Gordon friggin' Bennett.".Scully, sure we need Guns from the City sometimes to fund the whole thing and maybe even to speak up for us but we don't need to give ammunition to the anti's by mowing down tame birds with questionable shot. Edited September 10, 2015 by kitchrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 I don't know why you say "We deserve everything we get, and rest assured, in time we'll get it. Gordon friggin' Bennett.".Scully, sure we need Guns from the City sometimes to fund the whole thing and maybe even to speak up for us but we don't need to give ammunition to the anti's by mowing down tame birds with questionable shot. If you think that by criticising those who do things differently to you, will somehow endear you to antis who will then give you the big thumbs up for mowing down wild birds, or even those reared for 'sport' with 'questionable shot', then carry on. The antis have all the ammunition they need. They don't care about anything other than the fact you're killing for 'sport'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 Then your argument is irrelevant! If they don't care about anything other than that we kill birds, nothing else matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 If you think that by criticising those who do things differently to you, will somehow endear you to antis who will then give you the big thumbs up for mowing down wild birds, or even those reared for 'sport' with 'questionable shot', then carry on. The antis have all the ammunition they need. They don't care about anything other than the fact you're killing for 'sport'. We will never endear ourselves to the antis, agreed, however, we don't need to give them extra ammunition. If a section of the shooting community dislikes this "shooting for numbers" rather than for sport, imagine how those already anti will like it! By the way, I like your ID picture, what beer is it? When I'm out here in Canada I have to drive 30 miles in order to be able get cans of "Old Speckled Hen", $3 each or about £1.50 per large can - bargain!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 Then your argument is irrelevant! Well not really, because you've missed the point. My argument isn't aimed at the antis, but rather those shooters who cause nothing but devision and resentment by criticising or belittling the choices of others which they themselves don't agree with by remarks such as 'unsporting' or 'real sportsmen'. I knew exactly where this thread was heading as soon as the suspicion was mooted that there was no way of proving those who participated in commercial duck shooting perhaps weren't using non-toxic shot. There is no proof that all commercial game shots are using non-toxic shot, but equally there is no proof that all wild fowlers are either, yet I have yet to hear that suggestion coming from a game shooter. There are those on here whom have caused many PW'ers to cease posting on subjects such as decoying for example, because of the 'holier than thou' brigade who use their self appointed status as 'sportsmen' to castigate the choices of others, and use the excuse it is not only unsportsman like behaviour but 'food for the antis'. Believe you me, while you and I are killing wildlife for our own entertainment they have all the food they are ever likely to need, and while there are those who while doing this, are more than willing to criticise others for doing likewise, then the antis are the least of our worries. It's ok to blast 500 pigeons or crows out of the sky (and ok to dump the crows but not the pigeons!) but not deemed 'sporting' to pay to do likewise with ducks or pheasants. It's deemed 'sporting' by certain people, to 'harvest' a handful of wildfowl to take home and also apparently,( because I haven't heard anything to the contrary) deemed acceptable to sneak up on a couple of dozen duck floating on the water and blast them with a cannon from a punt. Some on here need to wake up and smell the roses and realise just how divisive their comments are. There are some on here who may consider themselves morally and ethical superior to others who do things differently, but unless you actually stop killing things for your own enjoyment, then the antis will still despise you. If there are a few aspects of shooting you don't agree with, then don't participate, but to criticise those who do only causes resentment. Shooters cannot afford to alienate any shooters at all. Will we never learn? If they don't care about anything other than that we kill birds, nothing else matters. Tell me then, what else in your opinion, do the antis care about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 Wow. I think you need another beer and a lie down in a darkened room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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