IEH Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Seems to me the game dealers could quite easily solve this by insisting that any wildfowl that they buy in are tagged, with date/supplier/place of origin etc. Simple check to ensure that the information on the tag corresponds with where the payment is going and Bob's your uncle - traceability! Combine this with Marsh Man's suggestion of scanning and the culprits would soon be outed. With the current growth in customers' interest in meat traceability they might even find it a good marketing tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Seems to me the game dealers could quite easily solve this by insisting that any wildfowl that they buy in are tagged, with date/supplier/place of origin etc. Simple check to ensure that the information on the tag corresponds with where the payment is going and Bob's your uncle - traceability! Combine this with Marsh Man's suggestion of scanning and the culprits would soon be outed. With the current growth in customers' interest in meat traceability they might even find it a good marketing tool. I work in the petfood industry , even all the meats we use are tracable to source , seems bizzare that game and fowl going into the human food chain are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 It isn't so much the game dealers, I don't suppose they are over bothered, a dead duck is a dead duck!.........it is the test purchases of duck from the game dealers by the anti lead protectionist groups such as the RSPB and the WWT which when subsequently tested reportedly have been 'found' to contain lead shot.......that will probably ultimately lead to the banning of lead shot altogether! That is the problem I was referring to! Exactly non compliance to the current law will only lead to a complete ban on sale of lead Want to keep lead? Start stamping down on any fool who thinks they don't need to comply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 I work in the petfood industry , even all the meats we use are tracable to source , seems bizzare that game and fowl going into the human food chain are not. A few years ago we had to comply with the new ruling to get a Wild Game Meat hygiene certificate , this was needed because we sold game to a game dealer. The main things we had to change was , remove all the old nails and replace with brass and plastic game head holders , space them out so no game touched each other when hanging , stainless steel bench , washing your hands facilities and hanging the game up as soon as possible , we then informed the game dealer what the bag was and what time we would be finished on a shooting day and I have known the dealer to be waiting for us at the game larder before we were back. As we all ready had a purpose built game larder these were the minimum requirements , so you can see why it is cheaper for some shoots to give the game away rather than to spend a lot of money to get a little back from the sale of game . Weather everyone who sell game need a certificate , I don't know , but a game dealer need game and fowl to make a living so he isn't going to ask more questions than necessary . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Marsh man wot does ur game dealer do thou? Throw every thing in a heap on the van floor followed by ur neighbouring estates birds too. Even seen deer chucked in amoung it too, despite deer meant to be in a seperate chiller from feather Would imagie many of the larger game dealers will have depots in Scotland or buy stuff in from scotland, think most game heads to continent anyway so possibility off a lot of mixing sources. Why because someone has had a good flight does everyone automatically want to acuse them of using lead shot? Steel shot is just as cheap nowadys and at the range of flighting duck perfectly adequate. Not a big fan of shooting reared duck but how many of thse reared duck fly elswhere and are shot on foreshore, river etc, most shoots ill only be shooting 30-50% so the extra ducks have to go somewhere. Really don't have a problem if someone wants to pay for it thats there choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Well a darn good move might be to stop commercial sale of wild duck Truly wild duck will not stand for people stood bold upright in the field and don't need encouraging to fly off when approached even when it's done with care Game killed always seems such an encumbrance to big commercial shoots it's a total wonder to me that they ain't twigged on to shooting less on the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 How do u tell the difference between a reared mallard and a wild 1? Wot then happens to all the duck shot of commercial shoots? The ducks are not shot for their value at the game dealer but for the value u pay to shot them so stopping there sale will not stop reared duck being shot, possibly only lead to them being given away Shooting less means they have to charge less for the day, so less beaters etc. Unfortunately money drives most things nowadays. I have driven plenty of 'true wild' duck over standing guns, u can do it, i've seen packs in the thousand of teal and wigeon and wild mallard driven over guns usually lucky to drop very many as always sporting and u only get 2/4 barrels at them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Hi folks, My mate told me about a photo he had seen yesterday of someone's first evening flight with what I think was 8 guns. The total bag was 186 duck if I remember correctly. Is anyone as annoyed as me hearing this? Mainly mallard, (which are declining in numbers anyway), and all in one night. Surely they must be reared? Either way I think it's ridiculous shooting that number of wild or reared in one go. I'm sure this topic is brought up every season in one form or another but it sounds like slaughter to me as opposed to going out for a couple of memorable shots and having a brace to eat that week? May have just opened the flood gates here but I feel slightly less ****** off after sharing it A guy was chatting up an attractive female in a bar, as the conversation drifted towards the nature of sexual morality the guy asked, “Do you think that you could be persuaded to make love to someone for £10,000”? The girl pondered for a few minutes and replied, “Yes, for that amount of money I think that I would”. “Ok”, said the guy. “Would you make love to me for £50.00”?“Just what sort of a girl do you think I am”? She replied. “We have already established that”, he said. “Now we are just haggling over the price”! The hunter hunts, the hunted are slaughtered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 How do you tell the difference? By the ones that actively avoid the guns and those that fly low circle then just drop back in to the pond they just got flushed from that's how Of course the man doing the flushing already knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 So how does a game dealer tell then Kent? Have u ever done much on commercial duck shoots? Granted the first or second tmie throu there not all great fliers but i've picked up on some fairly famous high bird pheasant and partridge shoots and seen early season birds glide down towards the guns, Is it really any different? Mibee different in other places but we are lucky to have a lot of wild duck too and by mid Oct all the duck are offering sporting shots, and tend to ****** of instantly with the wild duck. No one is forcing the guns to shoot the ower birds just as u would not shoot the lower birds on an early pheasant/partridge day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 To save the game dealer telling between reared and wild mallard it is probably safer to ban the sale of all duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_o Posted September 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Does anyone know what he price of a duck is from us to them and what they're sold on at after processing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Does anyone know what he price of a duck is from us to them and what they're sold on at after processing? Depending on where you take them to , and what species of duck your taking , as a guide they go in three sizes , Mallard ( and this time of the year Med Mallard ) All other duck apart from Teal go under Widgeon or Medium size duck.......Mallard around £1.20 to £1.30 , Medium duck 40p , Teal 40p , these are for fresh duck , if frozen around half that , so as you can see , you will never get rich selling what you shoot. If buying them from your local butcher , £3.50 to £4.00 for Mallard , £2.50 to £3.00 for Med duck and a little less for Teal . If from say Waitrose you can add about £2.00 on the above prices . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Sorry lads, but reared duck and pheasant will be shot regardless...... Selling and use of the meat is important! You all seem to forget commercial shooting in England and Scotland is big business..... It is also one of the reasons we have some sway with gov as it is millions for the economy... Like it or not..... We all know wildfowlers and their clubs do a lot for the shore line, conservation and have minimal impact on the quarry or these areas.... BUT if it was only us left we would be done away with as quick as! I understand people's feelings on the subject but some should think on what they are suggesting....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reabrook Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Sorry lads, but reared duck and pheasant will be shot regardless...... Selling and use of the meat is important! You all seem to forget commercial shooting in England and Scotland is big business..... It is also one of the reasons we have some sway with gov as it is millions for the economy... Like it or not..... We all know wildfowlers and their clubs do a lot for the shore line, conservation and have minimal impact on the quarry or these areas.... BUT if it was only us left we would be done away with as quick as! I understand people's feelings on the subject but some should think on what they are suggesting....... As much as I detest the fact some people cannot see the difference between duck/goose shooting and Wildfowling I think this post is pretty much nail on the head! Edited September 7, 2015 by Reabrook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Agreed , they will be shot regardless even if it means they do straight into the ground rather than to the game dealers. I guess a ban on the feeding of wildfowl for shooting purposes would help to a degree but even that needs weighing up against the conservation aspect , but like many things in our sport whats the point in putting yet another law into it that cannot possibly be policed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratter 1 Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Hi folks, My mate told me about a photo he had seen yesterday of someone's first evening flight with what I think was 8 guns. The total bag was 186 duck if I remember correctly. Is anyone as annoyed as me hearing this? Mainly mallard, (which are declining in numbers anyway), and all in one night. Surely they must be reared? Either way I think it's ridiculous shooting that number of wild or reared in one go. I'm sure this topic is brought up every season in one form or another but it sounds like slaughter to me as opposed to going out for a couple of memorable shots and having a brace to eat that week? May have just opened the flood gates here but I feel slightly less ****** off after sharing it was this shoot up leeds way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Game killed always seems such an encumbrance to big commercial shoots it's a total wonder to me that they ain't twigged on to shooting less on the day Really? I've been involved in commercial shoots both large and small for years and haven't come across a single one which regards game as an encumbrance. Exactly the opposite in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Agreed , they will be shot regardless even if it means they do straight into the ground rather than to the game dealers. What are you referring to, reared or wild game, or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 I am refering to those shot on large commercial shoots that rear a lot of birds, the price they get for game is but a fraction of what they make on selling days so it would not be the end of the world to them if they could not sell their duck , if the guns and beaters did not want them all the remainder would go into the ground I suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 I can understand your reasoning but it's not what happens in my experience, which is that all go to game dealers, even if it's just pennies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 I can understand your reasoning but it's not what happens in my experience, which is that all go to game dealers, even if it's just pennies. Yes I am sure they mostly do but I was talking about what would happen if their was a ban on the sale of duck . As I see it two things could happen. They would continue to rear duck and just bury what was not needed , they would not rear duck and switch wholely to shooting other game . Again this is perhaps unlikely as duck drives on a lot of the big shoots are simply "bag fillers" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_o Posted September 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 was this shoot up leeds way I don't know pal. Was just a picture I was shown was this shoot up leeds way I don't know pal. Was just a picture I was shown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Sorry lads, but reared duck and pheasant will be shot regardless...... Selling and use of the meat is important! You all seem to forget commercial shooting in England and Scotland is big business..... It is also one of the reasons we have some sway with gov as it is millions for the economy... Like it or not..... We all know wildfowlers and their clubs do a lot for the shore line, conservation and have minimal impact on the quarry or these areas.... BUT if it was only us left we would be done away with as quick as! I understand people's feelings on the subject but some should think on what they are suggesting....... Very well put. There is enough people out there who really do not agree with killing ANYTHING without us all trying to take some sort of high moral stance over other field sports, we're all in this together,be it shooting, hunting, fishing or anything else They're is 1 largish commercail shoot near to me where i used to keeper on and still help the keepers beating or pick up, no idea wot returns they're getting now but they put a lot of duck into the valley and i know most of the other shoots in valley all benfit from there ducks (wether it is a good thing for genetics releasing duck is a different thing altogether) that shoot will be putting out tonnes of barley probably over 100T a year over 10+ different ponds and the river, that is a lot of food to find elsewhere for all the wintering duck, a lot of them will flight from the coast every evening for feed. When we haad the cold weather fowling ban 4-5 years ago they where still feeding right throu it I'm also on a nearby nature resrve comitee, almost every pond on the shoot will produce 10X the young duck our reserve produces each year, keeper manages vermin feeds and puts out chick crumb for ducklings when needed. So wildfowlinfg is not completely seperate from everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Yes I am sure they mostly do but I was talking about what would happen if their was a ban on the sale of duck . As I see it two things could happen. They would continue to rear duck and just bury what was not needed , they would not rear duck and switch wholely to shooting other game . Again this is perhaps unlikely as duck drives on a lot of the big shoots are simply "bag fillers" I can't see why a ban on the sale of duck would ever come about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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