Lloyd90 Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 If it didn't work for you, then fair enough not to take it, but it never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which the media goes to try to paint opiates as being so dangerously addictive, when in fact, that's not the case. I've come to understand that opiates are actually only moderately physically addictive - far less so than the nicotine in cigarettes, for instance. From my limited experience of working in a healthcare environment, dependence on opiates seems to me to be for the most part psychological. The combination of boredom and hopelessness in one's prospects of the stereotypical addict could hardly be alleviated more effectively than by a class of drugs, which, in high doses, tend to make one simply "not care". I knew of one GP in my previous job, who believed - apparently genuinely - that there was no real reason that anyone with a clean supply of both opiate drug and needles couldn't live an otherwise productive, high-functioning life, in spite of an addition to heroin or codeine or the like. He said that there was no reason one couldn't shoot up at 7pm each day, spend the evening in a stupor, then make a cup of tea and go to bed, waking refreshed for the next day at work. The suggestion was in fact that many people, who don't come to the attention of the police or social services through committing crime to feed their habit, apparently do just that. Of course, there may be political, social and economic reasons why people should be encouraged not to take opiates recreationally, but in terms of personal health, they aren't particularly toxic (they mimic endorphins, which the body produces naturally) and if you discount the risks of adulterants in the drug and disease from shared needles, the major risk, if there is one, is from venous infection and collapse due to repeated self-injection. In a well-adjusted person, the symptoms of addiction can be as mild as irritability - on a similar level to that which lots of us would experience if we missed our morning coffee. My personal view, though I've never needed anything more than the odd spot of morphine or codeine pill here and there for broken bones and shingles, is that opiates are under-used, medicinally. I can't help but thinking that a lot of trouble would have been saved if, rather than trying to burn the Opium crops in Afghanistan, we'd simply paid the growers to switch sides and help alleviate the worldwide shortage of medicinal opiates. Certainly drug dealers / the Taliba would have had less cash to play with if we hadn't inflated the price of heroin by reducing the world's black market supply.... Ah well - some thoughts there. I did a big research paper on heroin and its effects, it certainly is addictive , however, I think the majority of the negative health from it comes from the "life style" aka being homeless, using dirty needles, not eating cos you can't afford both etc ... Allot of celebs use for years and suffer minimal health effects as it goes There's some research into how so many GI's used heroin when in Vietnam and just stopped once they came home , although I haven't had time to look it up and have a good read as of yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) I did a big research paper on heroin and its effects, it certainly is addictive , however, I think the majority of the negative health from it comes from the "life style" aka being homeless, using dirty needles, not eating cos you can't afford both etc ... Allot of celebs use for years and suffer minimal health effects as it goes There's some research into how so many GI's used heroin when in Vietnam and just stopped once they came home , although I haven't had time to look it up and have a good read as of yet This absolutely agrees with my limited experience - and to be clear, I wasn't saying opiates aren't addictive, just that they're less addictive than lots of people think they are. To put that into context, in terms of addiction potential, I'd consider the uppers (speed, (crack) cocaine, etc.) to be far more dangerous / problematic / difficult to quit. As you say, far more problems are caused by people trying to scrape together £40-50 (depends on the area, of course) for their next gram of heroin by burglarizing, begging etc. or allowing other (expensive-to-the-taxpayer) health issues to develop because of a lack of self-care. I'll look out for the GI's/Vietnam paper. Edited January 4, 2016 by neutron619 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 welsh1-may I suggest you have a word with your Doc.- Paracetamol is virtually useless as an anti-inflammatory. They are a top up for my naproxen and combined do a fair job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 If it didn't work for you, then fair enough not to take it, but it never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which the media goes to try to paint opiates as being so dangerously addictive, when in fact, that's not the case. I've come to understand that opiates are actually only moderately physically addictive - far less so than the nicotine in cigarettes, for instance. From my limited experience of working in a healthcare environment, dependence on opiates seems to me to be for the most part psychological. The combination of boredom and hopelessness in one's prospects of the stereotypical addict could hardly be alleviated more effectively than by a class of drugs, which, in high doses, tend to make one simply "not care". I knew of one GP in my previous job, who believed - apparently genuinely - that there was no real reason that anyone with a clean supply of both opiate drug and needles couldn't live an otherwise productive, high-functioning life, in spite of an addition to heroin or codeine or the like. He said that there was no reason one couldn't shoot up at 7pm each day, spend the evening in a stupor, then make a cup of tea and go to bed, waking refreshed for the next day at work. The suggestion was in fact that many people, who don't come to the attention of the police or social services through committing crime to feed their habit, apparently do just that. Of course, there may be political, social and economic reasons why people should be encouraged not to take opiates recreationally, but in terms of personal health, they aren't particularly toxic (they mimic endorphins, which the body produces naturally) and if you discount the risks of adulterants in the drug and disease from shared needles, the major risk, if there is one, is from venous infection and collapse due to repeated self-injection. In a well-adjusted person, the symptoms of addiction can be as mild as irritability - on a similar level to that which lots of us would experience if we missed our morning coffee. My personal view, though I've never needed anything more than the odd spot of morphine or codeine pill here and there for broken bones and shingles, is that opiates are under-used, medicinally. I can't help but thinking that a lot of trouble would have been saved if, rather than trying to burn the Opium crops in Afghanistan, we'd simply paid the growers to switch sides and help alleviate the worldwide shortage of medicinal opiates. Certainly drug dealers / the Taliba would have had less cash to play with if we hadn't inflated the price of heroin by reducing the world's black market supply.... Ah well - some thoughts there. A retired surgeon friend said something along teh same lines, Much prefers to deal with pure heroin than cannabis etc. Please don't think this means i support drugs, far from it, just a comment from the medical profession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) I had to visit a NHS Walk-in centre today. Whilst there a man came in and said he needed a repeat prescription for Paracetamol. The receptionist mentioned that there was a two hour wait and that he could buy them in Tesco for 29p. He said he would wait. Two hours to save 29p! And what would it have cost the NHS to process that? If it was up to me ,If anyone was suspected of being under the influence of drugs or alcohol an immediate charge would be applied before any treatment would be given to them. Say £30 that should reduce the leeches wasting valuable resources and nurses time and reduce the genuine needy peoples waiting time to zero at weekends. from Auntie. Edited January 4, 2016 by 100milesaway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I did a big research paper on heroin and its effects, it certainly is addictive , however, I think the majority of the negative health from it comes from the "life style" aka being homeless, using dirty needles, not eating cos you can't afford both etc ... Allot of celebs use for years and suffer minimal health effects as it goes There's some research into how so many GI's used heroin when in Vietnam and just stopped once they came home , although I haven't had time to look it up and have a good read as of yet It's important to understand that opiates taken properly are very safe, dependence, tolerance and addiction are all very different! It's very different to be taking opiates for analgesia than used for a high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 If it was up to me ,If anyone was suspected of being under the influence of drugs or alcohol an immediate charge would be applied before any treatment would be given to them. Say £30 that should reduce the leeches wasting valuable resources and nurses time and reduce the genuine needy peoples waiting time to zero at weekends. from Auntie. Why not charge everyone a small amount to use A+E if they really need it they will be happy to pay. It will stop those who cannot be bothered to phone and make an appointment at their GP or just want to sit in the warm for a few hours and have a chat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Why not charge everyone a small amount to use A+E if they really need it they will be happy to pay. It will stop those who cannot be bothered to phone and make an appointment at their GP or just want to sit in the warm for a few hours and have a chat We do pay for this service, what's needed is the triage to be more brutal. It is there, people do get told that they don't need emergency treatment, the main issue is the ambulance service being misused, if a patient says they want to go hospital, then they go, even with advice from the paramedics. The blame culture is rife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Why not charge everyone a small amount to use A+E if they really need it they will be happy to pay. It will stop those who cannot be bothered to phone and make an appointment at their GP or just want to sit in the warm for a few hours and have a chat And to take it a stage further, why not do away with the NHS completly and go back to how it was when I was a boy when only those who could afford it received medical treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 And to take it a stage further, why not do away with the NHS completly and go back to how it was when I was a boy when only those who could afford it received medical treatment. Quite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) And to take it a stage further, why not do away with the NHS completly and go back to how it was when I was a boy when only those who could afford it received medical treatment. Not at all, I use an NHS Dentist, I get charged for that, where is the difference? The NHS has not collapsed because I get charged for checkups and fillings. If I go to the GP and get a prescription for antibiotics I get charged for them. Go to A+E and I get given them for free. Go figure. A small charge would be a filter to reduce the timewasters. Do people really need to go to A+E because their new shoes have given them a blister? Edited January 4, 2016 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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