Copper shot

[greenergp]

I see that Siarm are selling copper shot, has anyone tried it and do you know if it can be fired through a full choke in an AYA no3?

 

http://www.siarm.com/index.php?cPath=2_191&osCsid=fd9853183fdd5874c08a7da09e9f3c4e

[fenboy]

I know there has been a couple on here try it , but strictly speaking copper is toxic so I do not know how that would sit if someone challenged it in law.

[roughshooter]

I asked BASC and they said it was not lead and therefore fine

[fenboy]

I asked BASC and they said it was not lead and therefore fine

 

I thought the law said that non toxic must be used , rather than lead must not be used

[Old farrier]

 

I thought the law said that non toxic must be used , rather than lead must not be used

Bit of a grey area on this rules are non lead cartridges for wild fowl not sure what the op wishes to shoot 😊

could be dodgey if they ban copper in ammunition especially for the deer stalking groups on ssi ground

Just a thought

Of

Edited March 27, 2016 by Old farrier

[dob]

I have used copper coated no 3 shot in my ten bore ,not sure how it fares with a full choke.

[TONY R]

Totaly legal to use, i have been on with it for a long time, it works great needs no protective wads responds to buffereing positively and you can send it as fast as steel. its 8.9 grams per cc so its closer to bismuth than it is to steel, i cant say enough good things about it acctualy.

That from siarm only comes in 3.5 mm the german 4.2mm worked great in a 10 bore load which was lower presure than a lighter 1 5/8 oz steel load it was loosely based on with significantly more shot. more shot . It is not HW 19 or even HW13 but its not HW money either.

[FatFreddysCat]

I've use the copper No.3 from Siarm in my 1/2 and full choked 1910 Tolley 12 bore and it works fine. Also through my 1896 10 bore Gale with damascus barrels choked 1/4 and 1/2. 1/3rd the price of bismuth and 4 X softer than steel. Density and hardness charts attached below for info.

If copper plated steel is legal, surely copper must be ok.

 

 

 

[greenergp]

Thanks for the info.

I want to use it for wildfowl and copper sounds good it means i wont have to get the choke opened out on my gun

[hifly]

copper shot is bloody good, have used it to good effect on the geese last season very good kills, try buffering it aswell in a 3 1/2 inch load awesome.

[TONY R]

You do not need to wory about chokes i use a briley INVX 10 Turkey choke ( Porrted & 0.690 ) with 1584fps load in the tens no problems at all even with 4.2MM, It responds like hard nickel lead did to choke it likes it.

Think about it as cheap Bismuth that you can send at steel speed if you will and you wont be far away.

Edited March 28, 2016 by TONY R

[Dogs]

Hi been looking at copper shot myself to put through a 8 bore ? what shot sizes are available ? I have only seen the siarm stuff ?

[TONY R]

Good question basicaly at this moment in time that 3.5mm (3s) from siarm is all i can find. I got some 4.2mm from Germany awhile ago with the offer of more to come but it is well its not here yet everytime i enquire, but they insist its still an option in due course.

I think copper will get banned eventualy i always have, I am not sure why copper plated lead in the old winchesters etc was so acceptable even plated copper steel shot but pure copper shot gets the hackles up on everyone.

[greenergp]

The loads i have thought of using copper shot in are No.65 steel load in the RSI manual or No 1 load in the Bismuth loads in the RSI manual, do either of these sound a sensible load with copper shot?

[TONY R]

If it worked and was safe for steel go on weight and it will work for copper with wad adjustment. And in my experience produce lower PSI on both ports of my machine. Now RSI data remember was developed with older significantly different lots of A Steel and some hard to find american powders, pluss many loads use white box winchester primers that are discontinued and quite different to blue box replacements. So the RSI data although interesting and a good starting point should be viewed with some trepidation in my opinion.

[snow white]

could you use it in 20 bore with out plastic wads.and what sort of powder load would you need.

[greenergp]

I have ordered some copper shot from siarm, and i see they have a copper load listed in their loads of the month, i have not seen the powder they use (mbX36) for sale in the UK does anyone know if its available in the UK?

 

Here is a link to the copper load data

http://www.siarm.it/product_info.php?products_id=589

[rbrowning2]

MBx36 is a B&P powder and you are unlikely to find it for sale in this country, certainly not on FES or C&G site.

 

Also 750bar is an interesting pressure for a 2.3/4" 12ga load, so may be just as well to look for a different load.

[Guest cookoff013]

dont think it is classified as nontoxic shot, but copper can poison.

[TONY R]

It is legal it is non lead which our law demandsm now how long its legal remains to be seen. The toungsten shot types were show by usa research to be clerly carcenogenic, but only parts of scandinavia took action and banned toungsten based on the american research.

Be interesting to see what happens to copper, i personaly think its days are numberered, which i feel is a bit unfair as copper plating of shot both lead and steel have gone un noticed for years, but mention soild copper shot anywhere in the world and its toxic nature gets instanty mentioned.

Its doomed But i will be using it up to the bitter endm its performance rather like steel is far better than its density shows and its price allthough more than steel is the next cheapest shot even at siarms prices, is far outweighed by its performance.

I think my assesment of copper that its a little like imagine bismuth at steel velocity is prety accurate, its good, IMO

Edited April 8, 2016 by TONY R

[Guest cookoff013]

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/333037-lead-vs-steel-internal-ballistics/

 

this thread didnt take off like i`d hoped (stimulated yet another reloading conversation)

 

my model i produced was to create a pressure predictor with different shot types, not just steel vs lead, but copper, tungstens, etc....

[TONY R]

And a good thread it was but on here i dont see as much input or the same kind of debate as say a similar thread on the loading bench or shotgunworld might muster.

Most of the Yank forums these days are frequented by the same old same as people, its never long before a HW19 advocate shows up with a KPY chart showing where Only TSS can ever work And how steel sucks. Its just not happening like the Early 2000s on American Waterfowler Deep woods calls foum etc, Where a lot of good info could be gained.

Face book looked promising at one point but as proved to be pretty lame>

Would be good to generate some Worthwile debate on here kind of re launch the AW ^ Deep woods heydaysm but i can not see it happening.

[Guest cookoff013]

i just wanted to dispell some myths, or just to tell the truth.

to be honest i had very little ideas of what to do next, but i think i have plans for the future, i`m going to have to re-assess what i`m doing and propper screen loads via increments of powder.

i still want to be at the cutting edge of reloading, and not only the "use a slower powder".

 

steel for me is a viable option. very viable infact.

 

i love developing loads or economy loads or anything.

 

the golden age of steel is upon us, its not like the old days where loads were bad. slow and small shot.

 

i really get that stuff, T18, baring the cost it is almost the perfect shot type, #9-t18 performing like #2-pb. load it at 1200fps and still produce full patterns at 90yards. (well almost)

[TONY R]

I agree and to a large extent enjoy reloading non tox as much as the next man, and do see the advantages it offers, but the vast majority dont see the need for the full ten tenths of performance and are quite content to walk down to the local store and buy their favourate comercial loads and just use them, and to good effect so perhaps there is someting to be said for settling for something less than perfection in some cases.

You cant take anything away from the Toungsten HWs shot types For ultimate performance but it is very comfidence building to do the task with the cheaper options like steel copper or home made Bismuth, and its not all about the ecconomy the challenge factor is fuel enough for me to put time and effort into it to make these less dense shot types work beyond whats generaly accepted,.

Copper as good performance and i like loading it the felt wads card seals and buffered wrapped loads all hark back to a past time and all work just fine with copper,

[UK fowler]

And a good thread it was but on here i dont see as much input or the same kind of debate as say a similar thread on the loading bench or shotgunworld might muster.

Most of the Yank forums these days are frequented by the same old same as people, its never long before a HW19 advocate shows up with a KPY chart showing where Only TSS can ever work And how steel sucks. Its just not happening like the Early 2000s on American Waterfowler Deep woods calls foum etc, Where a lot of good info could be gained.

Face book looked promising at one point but as proved to be pretty lame>

Would be good to generate some Worthwile debate on here kind of re launch the AW ^ Deep woods heydaysm but i can not see it happening.

Iv not heard anyone mention Deep wood calls for ages very good info on there right back to the wilbob load the only place that came close was the pitblind . for a short space of time there was a lot of load development on there . DHC and the refuge are just the same old farts going over the same old loads don't think I have posted on there in over a year just no point . the best load data now is mostly sent by PMs I would say on here and facebook if people are spending £45 to get loads tested they seem less than Keen to just give them out willy nilly