adi786 Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Hi Guys, just wanted to check this Mentor condition is it something which is imposed on certificate? coz when i had mine, all i had received was a letter saying we have granted your firearms and then a statement "as you have little previous experience of shooting deer we would recommend you initially shoot deer whiles accompanied by someone with experience" on my license it doesn't says anything related accompanied or mentoring? Not sure if the mentor condition is usually put in under conditions on license itself? Thanks the wording certificate is for .243 is: "The .243 rifle, .243 sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for shooting fox/deer and other laful quarry, and for zeroing practice on ranges, on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot." Not sure where mentor is "and fac officer when was giving certificate, asked me to give him the name of the person who will mentor and a written confirmation from him that he happy to mentor., but on license its not mentioned anywhere :S am confused though i have been going out with him. I thought the wording on grant letter is what is condition :s.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic1281 Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 I think that sounds like advice and not a mentor condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 As medic has pointed out, you have received advice - the letter says that the police "recommend" that you shoot initially with someone with experience. Which is good advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi786 Posted April 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 not sure why FEO said when i sent my application off that he need my mentor details... and on FAC there is no Mentor.. not sure why FEO said something else and on license nothing came up.. my mentor lives 4 hours away from me, thereforce i dont get much to go out for deer.. been out like 8 times with him so far in last 4-5 months. Only thing we kept on confusing was FEO statement and then actual certificate conditions.. believe am good to go own my own ... As medic has pointed out, you have received advice - the letter says that the police "recommend" that you shoot initially with someone with experience. Which is good advice. I think that sounds like advice and not a mentor condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 There is no such thing as a mentoring condition. This is just something dreamt up by various departments. Who is qualified to be a mentor? It is rubbish and nonsense. Departments have been told not to use it# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Sounds like a recommendation rather than a condition, so personally I'd just carry on. As you've already been accompanied several times you have done as recommended. Job done. Just forget about it now and enjoy your shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Sensible, pragmatic advice from Scully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi786 Posted April 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 thanks guys, just had a quick call with firearms department, and spoken to them that why was i asked but there is just a advice. Been told they used to put mentor conditions on license but they dont do it anymore, now they just advice. And then was told that it be good if the person u going out with just send us an email that you good to go out, just to cover myself (wasn't sure on this).. in response i said not sure how will that help as there is no such condition on license and would it be useful at all if he sends email.. reply was yeh u're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Recently I was asked if I would "Supervise" someone. I asked the feo what this entailed and told him that this was a kind of mentoring in disguise and he agreed. I didn't mind helping the bloke so I asked the feo how long ect I would be expected to perform this help. He replied just a few times to make sure that things were being done in a sensible manner. Sounds reasonable so I agreed. Everyone happy. When the blokes ticket came through it had conditions that he could not use his weapons unless accompanied by me. We contacted the department and inquired what / how long this meant. the reply was "well for a few times >> perhaps when you've shot 20 > 30 deer !!!! We replied that no normal shooter would take that many deer in 5 years, so in effect it was a kind of permanent restriction and that was not as outlined by the feo. But it is all verbal and they only work on the word so if this bloke was found out on patrol without my being with him he could loose his cert for non compliance. the condition was modified. be careful what you agree to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi786 Posted April 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Recently I was asked if I would "Supervise" someone. I asked the feo what this entailed and told him that this was a kind of mentoring in disguise and he agreed. I didn't mind helping the bloke so I asked the feo how long ect I would be expected to perform this help. He replied just a few times to make sure that things were being done in a sensible manner. Sounds reasonable so I agreed. Everyone happy. When the blokes ticket came through it had conditions that he could not use his weapons unless accompanied by me. We contacted the department and inquired what / how long this meant. the reply was "well for a few times >> perhaps when you've shot 20 > 30 deer !!!! We replied that no normal shooter would take that many deer in 5 years, so in effect it was a kind of permanent restriction and that was not as outlined by the feo. But it is all verbal and they only work on the word so if this bloke was found out on patrol without my being with him he could loose his cert for non compliance. the condition was modified. be careful what you agree to. well thanks, on my FAC certificate there is no such condition which says i can only go out with mentor or anything, and even my FEO when came to give me certificate / while intervie he said am good to go own my own for foxing, only need someone while deer.. I have read some article somewhere which says most Firearms departments are told not to put mentor conditions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 This is a lot of the problem because it is make it up as you go along which is all very well but if something is verbally agreed it don't mean Jack. it is only the written word that carries weight and even that is open to interpretation. Because the feos are only civilian staff they are the worst and come out with all sorts of nonsense. and they say it with real conviction with a sort of veiled threat that most people don't contest it for fear of rocking the boat. .And don't think for a sec that you are going to get any help from your org because if they could have any influence this situation of delays and make it up as they go along wouldn't be happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi786 Posted April 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 This is a lot of the problem because it is make it up as you go along which is all very well but if something is verbally agreed it don't mean Jack. it is only the written word that carries weight and even that is open to interpretation. Because the feos are only civilian staff they are the worst and come out with all sorts of nonsense. and they say it with real conviction with a sort of veiled threat that most people don't contest it for fear of rocking the boat. .And don't think for a sec that you are going to get any help from your org because if they could have any influence this situation of delays and make it up as they go along wouldn't be happening. agree i was told by one of a friend, not to go into details etc.. do what he says as you have to deal with him in future as well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 agree i was told by one of a friend, not to go into details etc.. do what he says as you have to deal with him in future as well.. if the feo is wrong let him know he's wrong or he will walk all over you,i had my feo out 3 weeks ago and i told him about long waiting times for renewals etc,he told me to put a complaint in or nothing will change!,he said that shooters don't complain because they are frightened to upset them but if you want to sort out problems then you need get to the complaints in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 One thing to note is that your ticket is "closed" so make sure the ground that you are shooting deer on has been cleared by your force for the calibre you are using. If it hasnt you would be committing an offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi786 Posted April 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 One thing to note is that your ticket is "closed" so make sure the ground that you are shooting deer on has been cleared by your force for the calibre you are using. If it hasnt you would be committing an offence. o yes ofcourse, as they asked me to fill in a land form and signed by land owner... the land was already cleared up to 243.. am only shooting to a land on which i got 243 not using rifle anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 o yes ofcourse, as they asked me to fill in a land form and signed by land owner... the land was already cleared up to 243.. am only shooting to a land on which i got 243 not using rifle anywhere else. Sorry for stating the obvious mate but just wanted to make sure you didnt get caught out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 My feo refused to put my .243 down for deer without a mentor so put it as target only. When I buy my .243 ill rung them and say there is a mistake on my fac if they contest it ill ring basc. They have no legal authority to place such conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 My feo refused to put my .243 down for deer without a mentor so put it as target only. When I buy my .243 ill rung them and say there is a mistake on my fac if they contest it ill ring basc. They have no legal authority to place such conditions. Which county are you in? This should be contested BEFORE they issue a ticket. To get the 243 allocated for deer you will have to show reason and ground or somewhere that you can go >> EG a paid stalk ec. If the ticket gets issued for ranges only you might have a big job to get the deer and all legal quarry put onto the ticket. If you are a member of basc get them onto it and let us know what they say and what the outcome is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 (edited) I already had two farms to stalk on with roe and foxes and that land is cleared up to .243. I was granted my .22lr for vermin on that land as well as club use the feo just refused to put the .243 down he said id need to go stalking with someone and get them to sign that they had taken me out. I'll keep you updated. I'm west mercia. Edited April 8, 2016 by srspower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 (edited) I already had two farms to stalk on with roe and foxes and that land is cleared up to .243. I was granted my .22lr for vermin on that land as well as club use the feo just refused to put the .243 down he said id need to go stalking with someone and get them to sign that they had taken me out. I'll keep you updated. I'm west mercia. read my posts #'s 9 and 11 Edited April 8, 2016 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi786 Posted April 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 I already had two farms to stalk on with roe and foxes and that land is cleared up to .243. I was granted my .22lr for vermin on that land as well as club use the feo just refused to put the .243 down he said id need to go stalking with someone and get them to sign that they had taken me out. I'll keep you updated. I'm west mercia. that's strange, for me while booking in for my interview, i was told i need these things, one was mentor details, so my mentor sent an email to my FEO. But when license arrived, no conditions on it, i thought the recommendation they has said on covering letter is a mentoring condition. As read on few forums, Firearms departments has been told not to put these conditions, that is exactly what i was told over phone when i rang them to check that i was asked for mentor but there is no such condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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