Yanis Varoufakis

[Rewulf]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/may/28/brexit-empire-era-trick-radical-case-for-europe-lucas-mcdonnell-democracy-eu?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

Talk about hypocritical ?

Or maybe hes just done a good old fashion 'deal'

Either way you look at it, the embattled ex finance minister of Greece,has done a spectacular U turn on his opinion of the EU.

Whatever you think of the way Greece handled its finances and the subsequent bail outs from various EU controlled banks ect,its quite staggering how someone who fought tooth and nail against the EUs forced austerity, that has bought and will continue to bring misery to the people of his nation,now champions that very institution.

 

Heres a few excerpts.

'In any case, the British establishment will never let go of the single market (even if voters choose to leave the EU). And that ensures there is, in fact, no escape from the union’s regulatory framework.'

 

So at least he admits its not really a democracy!

 

'The reason public services are failing is the rolling austerity that cloaks a vicious class war against Britain’s poor; a war that would have happened even if the UK border were hermetically sealed.

Indeed, without the labour, skills and dedication of migrants staffing them, the NHS and other services would have collapsed.'

Huh? So the reason public services are stretched is nothing to do with several million extra people landing here,some specifically to use our NHS ect, but to do with the 'class war' being waged on us by the government.

Plus without all these migrants staffing the NHS ,we wouldnt be able to service them anyway,he also makes it sound like they do it for free!

'Brexit would not restore sovereignty, rationality or public services to Britain, but it would hasten the disintegration of the EU'

I see ,so staying in will ?

As far as bringing about the end of the EU , Good!

Edited May 29, 2016 by Rewulf

[robbiep]

It's Yanis.

He found out that 'political theory' doesn't match up with 'economic facts' last year. That went well.

 

Like all good socialists, he's excellent at spending other people's money. But that's about it.

[moose man]

He's an economist ..which means he's never produced anything of use ...even an opinion ..

[Granett]

Wish he was a UK MP to be honest. He did an incredible job of negotiating for his country while Finance Minister. He's hardly embattled.

 

He appears to be saying that:

 

1 - Regardless of the vote, Britain can't turn its back on its biggest trade market.

 

2 - Austerity has effected the poor far more than the wealthy.

 

3 There's no evidence that the problems cited by many Leavers (a lack of democracy and the strength of public services) will be fixed by "Brexit"

 

All correct.

[secretagentmole]

Wish he was a UK MP to be honest. He did an incredible job of negotiating for his country while Finance Minister. He's hardly embattled.

 

He appears to be saying that:

 

1 - Regardless of the vote, Britain can't turn its back on its biggest trade market. But we do not trade with the EU as a whole, only individual countries within it.

 

2 - Austerity has effected the poor far more than the wealthy. Makes sense really, those who have more will be better off when times means most have less.

 

3 There's no evidence that the problems cited by many Leavers (a lack of democracy and the strength of public services) will be fixed by "Brexit" So the instant saving on expenditure, being able to tell all the people who come here looking for benefits rather than work to bog off back to whichever ex communist state they came from, being able to trade freely with which ever country we like in the world without having to get permission from the headmasters in Brussels, being able to tell the Yanks where to shove TTIP, being able to finance our agriculture in a way that makes sense and investing what we do not spend being a member of the EU (a proven corrupt and inefficient organisation that makes the Mafia look like a ruddy Sunday School) on our public services will not make a difference?

 

All correct.

 

All correct? I don't think so!

[Rewulf]

Wish he was a UK MP to be honest. He did an incredible job of negotiating for his country while Finance Minister. He's hardly embattled.

 

He appears to be saying that:

 

1 - Regardless of the vote, Britain can't turn its back on its biggest trade market.

 

 

3 There's no evidence that the problems cited by many Leavers (a lack of democracy and the strength of public services) will be fixed by "Brexit"

 

All correct.

 

Staggeringly inaccurate and naive.

[MonkeyKong]

 

He found out that 'political theory' doesn't match up with 'economic facts' last year. That went well.

Very much this.

 

It's not surprising that Greece, who need the EU debt-tap to remain open in order to defer their inevitable bankruptcy, don't want to see the second largest financial contributor to the EU leave.

[robbiep]

Wish he was a UK MP to be honest. He did an incredible job of negotiating for his country while Finance Minister. He's hardly embattled.

 

I'll correct that for you :

 

He did an incredible job of nearly getting his country thrown out of the Eurozone while Finance Minister.

 

And then, when he refused to sign the memorandum, Greece held a referendum, and then Tsipras went over his head, so he threw all his toys out of the pram.

[Granett]

So many errors.

 

1 - If we leave we'll be negotiating with them as a block.

 

2 - You appear to be agreeing with him

 

3 - Sources?

 

Rewulf - supporting arguments?

 

Robbiep, he didn't get his country into that mess. He played a game of brinkmanship of which the Russians would have been proud.

 

Can't say I'm happy with the result, or Greece's EU history, but if the Daily Mail was Greek, it would have had his picture on the front page wearing some sort of crown.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Granett

[FalconFN]

Wish he was a UK MP to be honest. He did an incredible job of negotiating for his country while Finance Minister. He's hardly embattled.

 

He appears to be saying that:

 

1 - Regardless of the vote, Britain can't turn its back on its biggest trade market.

 

2 - Austerity has effected the poor far more than the wealthy.

 

3 There's no evidence that the problems cited by many Leavers (a lack of democracy and the strength of public services) will be fixed by "Brexit"

 

All correct.

Totally agree. I can't see anything to get too worked up about in his statements. It is worth noting, however, that he has only tackled a few of the reasons given for Brexit and ignored the future problems the further enlarged EU will undoubtedly have, and he skirted over the sovereignty bit which is more than just adhering to the regulatory framework for trade.

[robbiep]

Yanis's brinkmanship is all well and good if you've got a pair of Aces. When your hand comprises absolutely nothing, and another party at the table calls your bluff, you are truly screwed.

 

At the end of 2014, Greece's economy was growing. Climbing out of recession. In 2015, under SYRIZA and Yanis (and the rest of the loony left there), it plummeted again.

 

He is the ultimate in champagne socialist. Nice house - sorry, houses, some in his wife's name, luxury living, luxury clothes, etc. All while telling all those wearing rags and foraging through bins to feed their families that they've never had it so good

[Granett]

Source? (Sorry to sound like a broken record - if you rather we could all just make unsubstantiated comment)

 

Edit: Sorry. That could be read as more confrontational than intended.

 

It's hard to debate in generalisms. Your post could well be correct, but usually the burden of sources lies with the one making the assertion.

 

Also I don't want to go off, come back, say where (if anywhere) I think you're mistaken only for you to say, "I didn't mean that, I meant something else."

Edited May 30, 2016 by Granett

[poontang]

I'm not sure why anyone would give any credence to anything Varoufakis has to say, or indeed the likes of Obama, Merkel, Hollande, Tusk, Junker, Trudeau et al.

 

This referendum is for the people of the UK to decide whether they want to live in a democratic, autonomous country... not a bunch of self serving, self loathing retards.

 

If you honestly believe these people, who purport to represent us, have your best interests at heart by all means vote to remain. Call me an old cynic but I tend to think that the best interests of the general population are way down their list of priorities.

 

The EU, as it is now, is in freefall. Any major crisis has been worsened by its useless, bureaucratic approach. Whether it be the Greek debt crisis, the Eurozone in general, Ukraine, the terrorist threat, the migrant crisis, the Shengen zone, the rise of far right and far left parties across Europe...all of these problems have been created or worsened by the useless bungling of the Brussels hierarchy.

[ShootingEgg]

If on June 23rd we leave, do we actually need to trade with the EU.

 

Serious question.

 

I for one think the answer is no.

 

We can pretty much trade with any country in the world if we wanted to..

[Granett]

Poontang, it's unclear how you think the democratic voice of the average British citizen will be heard after a "Brexit".

 

SE, it would appear about 45% of our exports are to EU countries.

[Rewulf]

So many errors.

 

1 - If we leave we'll be negotiating with them as a block.

 

2 - You appear to be agreeing with him

 

3 - Sources?

 

Rewulf - supporting arguments?

 

Robbiep, he didn't get his country into that mess. He played a game of brinkmanship of which the Russians would have been proud.

 

Can't say I'm happy with the result, or Greece's EU history, but if the Daily Mail was Greek, it would have had his picture on the front page wearing some sort of crown.

 

I. Who is negotiating with whom ? Who is the Bloc?

I thought businesses did negotiations with other businesses for trade? So how does the EU help this along?

It doesnt ,it hinders it,tarrifs work both ways if they want to play it that way,just remember who buys the most from European companies..us.

And if they want to hinder our trade more because we leave,then it just goes to show what kind of organisation they are.

 

2.I did this thread to point out what kind of person they have employed to be the mouthpiece of Remain,What has it got to do with him anyway?

He is a failed Greek economist of proven dubious loyalty.

What qualifies him to comment on a democratic process within this country,he needs to look to his own,but I doubt very much he lives there anymore.

 

3.Sources? What are yours ? The pro EU media?

If you want to believe the EU fairytale will have a happy ending and everything will come right in time,thats your choice.

But if you can remove the blinkers for just a second and try to see it for what it really is you will come to a different conclusion.

 

It is undemocratic,that is a FACT.

Its is a money pit,with elitist 'intelligentsia ' feeding from a big trough,FACT.

The project IS about building an EU 'superstate' ,FACT.

The EU is incompetent at dealing with even basic humanitarian and economic issues, FACT.

The EU project is dying , little or no economic growth,a disillusioned populace and the most important thing,no proven track record of success,in anything!

 

So listen to people like Varoufakis,vote to stay and feel all smug and warm knowing youve done the 'right' thing.

[grrclark]

Varoufakis didn't negotiate anything beneficial with the EU, the IMF or the EMF, he basically shouted out loud making noises the Greek populace wanted to hear, his positioning meant that very heavy restrictions were placed on the Greece populace, he got huckled out of his post as the fall guy and Tsisparis agreed to pretty much everything the troika had wanted to impose from the get go.

 

Please do tell me what benefit his posturing or brinksmanship achieved for the Greek people?

 

Just for the record based on the statement that "austerity has affected the poor far more than the wealthy", every single fiscal policy ever implemented anywhere has a far greater impact on the poor than the wealthy, it is the nature of things. A statement of utter factual pointlessness if there ever was one, but good emotional rhetoric.

[poontang]

Poontang, it's unclear how you think the democratic voice of the average British citizen will be heard after a "Brexit".

 

 

 

It's pretty clear to me.

 

I'll give you an example of how a democracy should work.

 

Before the 2010 general election the Lib Dems promised to oppose any increase in university tuition fees above the then £3200 ceiling. A sniff of power went to their heads and when the Lib Dems found themselves in coalition government with the Tories they backed an increase in fees almost trebling student debt.

 

They had broken a pre election pledge and the voters didn't forget.

 

At the 2015 general election the Lib Dems lost 48 of its 56 MP's and Clegg had to resign.

 

That is how a democracy should work.

 

Can the peoples of Europe vote for or vote out EU commissioners?

[Danger-Mouse]

Wish he was a UK MP to be honest. He did an incredible job of negotiating for his country while Finance Minister. He's hardly embattled.

 

 

 

As you appear to be a fan you should listen to him on the Andrew Marr show. I`m not going to directly quote all he said, simply because I can`t be bothered to transcribe it verbatum. But he acknowledges that "You can`t trust an economist to predict the future" and that as this is a unique event it`s statistically impossible to predict the effect on mortgages, the pound etc.

 

Start watching from 8:41 for the first quote.

 

 

He does rather amusingly comment about Cameron and Blair though saying that he`d rather the former wasn`t on the Remain side and that having the latter on your side is "just a glass of poison"

Edited May 30, 2016 by Danger-Mouse

[FalconFN]

Thanks DM, that was good. I actually agree with pretty much all of what he says, although I differ in his thinking that the economic instability that a Brexit would cause to Europe (and us) trumps the democratic vacuum of Brussels. Not keen on Platell though.

[FalconFN]

 

It's pretty clear to me.

 

I'll give you an example of how a democracy should work.

 

Before the 2010 general election the Lib Dems promised to oppose any increase in university tuition fees above the then £3200 ceiling. A sniff of power went to their heads and when the Lib Dems found themselves in coalition government with the Tories they backed an increase in fees almost trebling student debt.

 

They had broken a pre election pledge and the voters didn't forget.

 

At the 2015 general election the Lib Dems lost 48 of its 56 MP's and Clegg had to resign.

 

That is how a democracy should work.

 

Can the peoples of Europe vote for or vote out EU commissioners?

Completely correct. Unfortunately the EU isn't set up in anywhere near the same way.