Camerooon86 Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) Does anyone know the legalities about shooting on rented land? A farmer has given me permission to shoot his fields but one or two of them are being rented on 5 year leases (not that duration is important) and the land owner lives nowhere close... apparently doesn't even visit the land whilst it's under lease. So the main question is; Can I shoot on them with JUST the tenants permission? I'd just like to know have a definitive answer as any similar threads are inconclusive. For info, the shooting is for vermin control. Ta. Edited October 18, 2016 by Camerooon86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Not sure, on my estate the land is all rented out to farmers with cattle and crops but none are allowed to have anyone shoot the land as it's a private home and that is all controlled through me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 One of the farms I shoot includes a couple of rented fields and there's never been any question of not shooting on them. I would say maybe check with the landowner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 from what i understand even if a renter doesn,t have shooting rights he can appoint someone for pest control,ie crop or livestock protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 You should be ok for vermin control as the tenant has a duty to control the rabbits, it all gets a bit complicated when its game/deer. Sometimes land can even be owned but the shooting rights belong to someone different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Get on it and shoot the vermin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I have a piece which is contracted out and there is no problem. I can shoot whatever I want but the main thing is keep the rabbits down. Good idea to have a written agreement in your pocket from the owner of the land anyway, just in case you do get asked. That usually stops any argument. Back in the early 80s I was asked by the tenant farmer to control pigeons and then saw there was some geese/ducks/woodcock and lots of foxes, so I made enquiries with the landowner(large building company)the Manager there directed me to their Land Agent and he wrote up a full shooting lease and I paid a small fee. It was an annual license. My second visit I was harangued by four men who said they worked for the company and they had the shooting. I presented them with a copy of the lease and told them to go away. In short the company had to extend my right to shoot by an extra year free of charge and paid me a years rent for their workers disturbing my rights. That farm is now bricks and concrete, a huge housing estate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I once had my ticket back giving me permission to shoot on "any land rented by ****** farm" The wording gave me permission to shoot my 22.250 on a small patch of land he used to put his bale wrapper on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camerooon86 Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Excellent. So general consensus it that's it's fine for vermin but won't hurt to have landowners consent for back-up. Thanks very much👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 In theory it should be fine for vermin BUT all leases can be different from estate to estate land agent to land agent (usualy shooting, stalking and grazing rights will be different leases) and if there is a shooting tennant on the ground chances are it will upset them and put a few noses out (while legally u may be ok) ur reputation locally will be as a poacher. May even be restrictions on rifles? I bid on a shooting lease a few years ago and it even included foxing rights in the lease, never seen that before and not entirely sure its legal but it did specifically mention foxing in the paper work. Also as a boy the keeper gave me a right ####iing for ferreting on a farm even thou the farmer had gave me permissiion to rabbit there, i never realised the difference in those days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camerooon86 Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I know for certain that the farmer doesn't have a keeper for any of his land and there's been no intimation whatsoever about anyone else shooting for him...not in a long while anyway. I shall do some more homework though, just to be sure. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 It will depend entirely on the type of lease. As an example, an agricultural tenancy will give, in law, the tenant the right to take rabbits where a grazing lease will not. No tenancy or lease will give the tenant the automatic right to kill any other type of vermin other than rabbits as mentioned above. It all comes down to the terms of the lease/tenancy agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdog Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I would be very surprised if the lease does not allow the tenant to control vermin. This is norm with nearly all tenancies to stop a tenant from claiming against a land owner for crop damage due to vermin on the holding Game is a different matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Excellent. So general consensus it that's it's fine for vermin but won't hurt to have landowners consent for back-up. Thanks very much That would be an ideal situation, but I suggest that if you approach the landowner direct, after the tenant farmer has given you permission, then you chance offending the tenant farmer, which will do your relationship no good. I am in a similar situation and take the tenant farmers permission for controlling vermin with a shotgun as enough. I specify shotgun, as a FAC weapon is IMO a different matter. I am not a Lawyer, I am just telling you what I have done on this specific land for the last 23 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I would be very surprised if the lease does not allow the tenant to control vermin. This is norm with nearly all tenancies to stop a tenant from claiming against a land owner for crop damage due to vermin on the holding Game is a different matter. In most cases the above will be true BUT generally farmers know hee haw about shooting and how it relates to the tennacy, and even when the law says u can its usually the done thing for farmer to get the shooting rennant to control the pests (often pigeon and crows are included). If u ask the farmer to double check with the landowner/agent should cover u, and i'm sure u'l be fine anyway its usually when fields belong to big estates with shoots even if its right on the edge I've heard of farmers letting all sorts of folk on to shoot all sorts of things from geese to deer as they honestly thought it was ok. Legally sort of straight forward probably more trying to do the right thing withut stepping on existing shooters toes. i've turned down a fair bit of rabbit shoting in the past if i even see a pheasant feeder on the ground, just not worth the hassle, legally i probably could shoot them (and i would be using a rifle) but u just end up getting slagged for being a poacher, just not worth the hassle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I would be very surprised if the lease does not allow the tenant to control vermin. This is norm with nearly all tenancies to stop a tenant from claiming against a land owner for crop damage due to vermin on the holding Game is a different matter. Not so. I both rent and let grass on grazing leases, these do not confer the right to take vermin. I also lease out ground on proper tenancy, and as such the tenancy gives the tenant occupiers rights and therefore permits him to control ground game only, as the law permits under the 1880 ground game act. Note however that the tenant only has a legal right to control ground game, not other types of vermin. It is imperative to ensure that the tenancy agreement permits the tenant to take other types of vermin and that he is able to authorise others to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdog Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) Not so. I both rent and let grass on grazing leases, these do not confer the right to take vermin. I also lease out ground on proper tenancy, and as such the tenancy gives the tenant occupiers rights and therefore permits him to control ground game only, as the law permits under the 1880 ground game act. Note however that the tenant only has a legal right to control ground game, not other types of vermin. It is imperative to ensure that the tenancy agreement permits the tenant to take other types of vermin and that he is able to authorise others to do so. I will be suprised if you have a grazing lease, I would wager money that it is infact a grazing licence which is entirely different to a lease/tenancy agreement. With regard to your other point about the tenant only been able to control ground game in the tenancy. Just because it is not stated does not meaning the tenant cannot carry out such actions. I believe agricultural tenants have a right to control vermin under common law. You are right that a landlord can effectively contract out of the tenants rights to undertake any shooting or control any vermin on the land but again this is rare as it would put the landlord in a position where the tenant could claim for crop damage. Edited October 20, 2016 by zipdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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