CharlieT Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 no its not illegal its just the same if you buy a gun from a dealer in london and get it sent to an rfd in orkney the rfd in orkney puts it on your certificate NOT the rfd in london its the same when rfd dealers trade with each other Have you actually read what is printed on your SGC/FAC. Because, to me, it is clear what you are saying is not what these instructions say. Many of us may have bought a gun in the way you describe, however that does not make it correct in the eyes of the law and for anyone to give incorrect advice to the OP's question is just plain irresponsible. The OP should approach his local RFD and ask him how he wishes to proceed and with any luck the OP may find his RFD can sort it sympathetically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 if you send your certificate to a total stranger to put a gun on your certificate you are not seeing their certificate also if their certificate is still valid and that the serial numbers on the gun are the same on their certificate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.P. Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) if you send your certificate to a total stranger to put a gun on your certificate you are not seeing their certificate also if their certificate is still valid and that the serial numbers on the gun are the same on their certificate Nobody's saying that the system as written is a good idea. It is however a condition of your certification. Break it, and you do run the (remote) risk of having your ticket revoked. Edited November 1, 2016 by A.J.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I can just see the OP lying face down on the floor hammering both clenched fists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 if you send your certificate to a total stranger to put a gun on your certificate you are not seeing their certificate also if their certificate is still valid and that the serial numbers on the gun are the same on their certificate The RFD sees the sellers certificate on your behalf and will not facilitate the carriage without seeing it and the gun being listed on it. Just like your RFD shouldn't release the gun to you unless it is already on your certificate As I posted earlier look at instruction 3 of your own certificate, if the RFD fills it in you are breaking the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) The RFD sees the sellers certificate on your behalf and will not facilitate the carriage without seeing it and the gun being listed on it. Just like your RFD shouldn't release the gun to you unless it is already on your certificate As I posted earlier look at instruction 3 of your own certificate, if the RFD fills it in you are breaking the law. Have you ever driven at 40 in a 30, 80 in a 70..........Noooooooooooooooo you is too honest Edited November 1, 2016 by B25Modelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I can just see the OP lying face down on the floor hammering both clenched fists Ha your right! Seriously thanks to all Very helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) Have you ever driven at 40 in a 30, 80 in a 70..........Noooooooooooooooo you is too honest As I said earlier I feel it is only fair when someone asks a question to point out how it legally should be done. If other suggestions are against the law as written however stupid the law is or however slim the chance of getting caught is I feel it should be pointed out to the OP as well. I am not telling the OP how he should proceed but if someone came on here and said going 40 in a 30 is perfectly legal I would point out no it's not you can still get done regardless of how I actually drive. I am not telling anyone how they should behave just what the law as written expects of you. The law is an *** Edited November 1, 2016 by timps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Ye Gods! Talk about making things complicated for yourselves! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 your certificate says sold/let/ or given so you have given it to the rfd he then passes it to another rfd who then has given it to you where is this breaking the rules of your certificate ps each rfd also enters the gun in their gun register no law broken to many people try to make a mountain out of a mole hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 your certificate says sold/let/ or given so you have given it to the rfd he then passes it to another rfd who then has given it to you where is this breaking the rules of your certificate ps each rfd also enters the gun in their gun register no law broken to many people try to make a mountain out of a mole hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 your certificate says sold/let/ or given so you have given it to the rfd he then passes it to another rfd who then has given it to you where is this breaking the rules of your certificate ps each rfd also enters the gun in their gun register no law broken to many people try to make a mountain out of a mole hill No, not at all. It is you who are trying to persuade the rest of us that the law, as written on one's certificate, does not need to be followed despite the fact that to break it is a summary offence. Twist and squirm all you like, but it still does not alter the fact that you are advocating people to knowingly break the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 your certificate says sold/let/ or given so you have given it to the rfd he then passes it to another rfd who then has given it to you where is this breaking the rules of your certificate ps each rfd also enters the gun in their gun register no law broken to many people try to make a mountain out of a mole hill If you give it to an RFD then you cannot sell it to anyone else as it is no longer yours. As I said perfectly legal but you have just given your gun away without payment to the RFD and he now has to get the final RFD to sell it to the buyer and the gun is now covered by consumer laws and has to be fit for purpose as being bought from a business not private sale. If you claim you retain ownership then you are selling it to the end buyer in that case clause 3 of your certificate says. If you are selling a firearm [or shotgun] which will be sent or posted to another dealer for the buyer to collect in person you should complete this table and notify the police. The dealer who actually hands over the firearm should not complete the table or notify the police (except in circumstances which may require police investigation as above). I am not making a mountain just pointing out the law as written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 if you think i am telling you to break the conditions on your certificate you are very wrong phone your firearms office and ask them they will set you straight i worked in a gun shop for 2 1/2 years and bought and sold and transfered many shotguns and rifles with no problems at all i have also sold and bought many as a certificate holder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 markm posted earlier that he just did that and they agree with BASC whose advice is linked earlier and the rest of us stating what you are saying is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 under section 32 of the firearms act 1997 where a person sells. lets. on hire. lends for more than 72 hours or gives a person WHO is NOT a registered firearms dealer or a person who is entitled to purchase or acquire without holding a certificate must comply with the instructions in the certificate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Well unless the OP is a registered firearms dealer you have to comply with the instructions on his cert no matter how many firearms dealers the gun passes through to get to him. And those instructions clearly state the person selling the gun needs to fill in table 2 not the RFD handing over the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Agree with timps..... Use to do it the"old " way but now tightening up on it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) I don't think anyone is disputing the way it should be done, only the way it regularly happens in practise, which is still the way two of my local RFD's do it. The third local RFD was selling a gun I bought on behalf of a customer; I didnt ask him how it was entered in his register but it was he who phoned the seller to ask if he would accept my offer. Anyhow, the 'illegal' method works for me and countless others, and until it is stopped ( if it ever is ) it is the way I'll continue to do it. The OP, I'm sure, is a big boy and can make up his own mind. 🙂 Edited November 1, 2016 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Scully I must be reading a different thread to you then as some on this thread seem to be disputing the legalities It is clear from the posts of more than one person that more areas are definitely clamping down on it. Whether that bothers the op or not really isn't what is being discussed it is just the legality of it so he is forewarned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Scully I must be reading a different thread to you then as some on this thread seem to be disputing the legalities It is clear from the posts of more than one person that more areas are definitely clamping down on it. You could well be reading a different thread; I haven't read every post as I've been through this same topic several times now and the same points have already been raised. Each to their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlivet Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Ohh yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.C Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 My most recent purchase was from a dealer was 3 counties away and I drove there because "we must fill in your certificate". On my hols if farthest Corwall I was enquiring about a gun and was told the same. It's how it is now done. Big brother is watching and tightening up on the rules. Don't give them any excuse to make it harder to enjoy our sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O War Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Well they make the rules, even if they are a bit daft, and we should play by them because if we don't they will take our bat and ball off us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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