Road Tax help

[Davyo]

Wife's motor is 12mths old on 11/11/16,it's £0 road tax.What happens at reasonable renewal time? can't seem to find anything gets online and have not had any reminders.

[Davyo]

Jesus's, now sorted,checked as untaxed from 1/11/16.Just re taxed it for £0 but bit concerned that no reminder via post or email.Just thankful she had no accident as the insurance would have been void.So WARNING if you have a car with zero road fund fee,don't assume that because it's not required to have an MOT for 3yrs and it's insured & not declared SORN the tax with auto renew.What a Muppet I am.

[walshie]

They should have still sent a reminder even if it's for £0. I guess they can't automatically renew it as they would still need to check it's insured.

 

I don't believe no tax voids your insurance anyway. I think it's one of those urban myths otherwise when the cops fined people for no tax, they could also do them for no insurance at the same time.

[four-wheel-drive]

You could set up a direct debit payment like I have for £20 ish per months only yours would be £00 only joking but I wonder if it could be done this way.

[timps]

Yep it's an urban myth, you have got to insure your car first before you can buy tax for it.

 

Meaning if your insurance was invalid without tax and you need insurance to get tax the car could never be taxed in the first place.

[Davyo]

You could set up a direct debit payment like I have for £20 ish per months only yours would be £00 only joking but I wonder if it could be done this way.

I was sort of assuming that what would happen,considering I had no reminder.I wrongly assumed that because no MOT was due and it's insured (they have access to check insurance as they do this when you apply anyway).Plus the fact that no DVLA notification of sale and no SORN.

It was just after I 1st posted that I remembered you can check the gov site to see if a car has current Road Tax.Then on my finding went into panic mode & renewed immediately.Also took a screen shot of both complete application and of the confirmation email(in case we get pulled) as it may not show on the check tool for 24hrs.

[Rewulf]

Yep it's an urban myth, you have got to insure your car first before you can buy tax for it.

 

Meaning if your insurance was invalid without tax and you need insurance to get tax the car could never be taxed in the first place.

 

Not necessarily ,a lot of the reason for the new (ish) system of the tax ending upon sale of a vehicle (thereby forcing a new keeper to tax it ,and put it in his/her name) was to combat the fact that it was possible to get someone else to insure the vehicle, then you ,or anyone else for that matter could tax it,you dont need to own the vehicle to tax it.

Therefore you would not be insured,but it would be taxed.

The other issue is this,if the new owner taxes it fairly quickly,then they could still tax it without insurance,as it takes a while for it to fall off the MID database,in some cases it costs more to cancel a policy ,than just to let it run out.

To clarify ,it only needs to be on the MID to tax.

[Glenlivet]

You can tax a car with only a few days of insurance remaining, therefore possible to have a taxed but uninsured car.

 

I still thing the Aussie ' rego' system is best. MOT, tax and insurance all in one bundle. Job done!

[timps]

It’s the wording of the law rather than the MID, you need valid insurance to tax a car.

 

If a car is new or subject of a SORN the car is not taxed.

If the insurance is automatically invalidated by having no tax either by the insurance company or statute law you can never have valid insurance on that untaxed car.

 

If you can’t have valid insurance you cannot tax it.

 

Once taxed you can cancel your insurance or let it expire so it that sense you can have a taxed uninsured vehicle. However, if you can’t have an untaxed insured vehicle by law you would have massive problems trying to tax it again.

 

So having no tax does not invalidate your insurance is the point I am making.

Edited November 5, 2016 by timps

[bostonmick]

You would still get a reminder even if no charge.i have several old tractors all free to tax but still get a reminder.maybe the post office miss placed yours.

Edited November 5, 2016 by bostonmick

[TR1]

It has been suggested elsewhere that you can also get a fine if not retaxed even for zero rated

[Rewulf]

To try and clarify again.

 

It’s the wording of the law rather than the MID, you need valid insurance to tax a car. You can tax a car as long as its on the MID ,YOU ,are supposed to have insurance for YOU to drive it though.

 

If a car is new or subject of a SORN the car is not taxed.

If the insurance is automatically invalidated by having no tax either by the insurance company or statute law you can never have valid insurance on that untaxed car.

Try having an accident whilst the car is untaxed ,and see what your insurance company has to say about it.

 

If you can’t have valid insurance you cannot tax it. As above.

 

Once taxed you can cancel your insurance or let it expire so it that sense you can have a taxed uninsured vehicle. However, if you can’t have an untaxed insured vehicle by law you would have massive problems trying to tax it again.

Of course ,if its not on the MID ,you cant tax it.

 

So having no tax does not invalidate your insurance is the point I am making.

I have been told by police officers and legal professionals ,that no vehicle licence 'technically' means the vehicle should not be used on the road,so the insurance is not valid,just the same as your driving licence needs to be valid.

If you are not licensed you are not insured.

If you check your insurance policy it will probably tell you this

[walshie]

Without going into all those scenarios, the OP thought that by letting his tax lapse it might have invalidated his insurance.

 

The simple answer is NO it definitely would not have invalidated it.

 

Being told something by a police officer does not make it true.

[Rewulf]

 

Without going into all those scenarios, the OP thought that by letting his tax lapse it might have invalidated his insurance.

 

The simple answer is NO it definitely would not have invalidated it.

 

Being told something by a police officer does not make it true.

 

 

Well Im glad you got that cleared up for us !

[timps]

To try and clarify again.

 

 

You keep taking the word ‘you’ completely out of context, I didn’t specify whose insurance it actually was only that you (the person taxing the car) need (to show) VALID insurance for that vehicle before taxing it.

 

The MID is supposed to mean the car has valid insurance, if you are saying the law says the insurance is automatically invalid without tax then it is impossible for the untaxed car to be taxed as no valid insurance can ever be shown regardless of it being on the MID.

 

The insurance can say what they like about it but they still have to pay any 3rd party out in a claim, they might try and wriggle out of paying you for your car but that comes under contract law. As an innocent 3rd party you haven’t agreed to any terms and conditions the insurance company made with the policy holder so none of them apply to you should you be hit by an untaxed car. They have to pay the 3rd party out.

 

If the lack of tax was a contributing factor to the accident or significantly reduces the value of your car, then you could be in trouble but that would end up as a civil case and contract law.

 

You are not allowed to speed, does that mean when you get pulled over for speeding they can do you for driving without insurance as well?

[Rewulf]

 

You keep taking the word ‘you’ completely out of context, I didn’t specify whose insurance it actually was only that you (the person taxing the car) need (to show) VALID insurance for that vehicle before taxing it.

 

 

 

THAT is what I was trying to clarify.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The insurance can say what they like about it but they still have to pay any 3rd party out in a claim, they might try and wriggle out of paying you for your car but that comes under contract law. As an innocent 3rd party you haven’t agreed to any terms and conditions the insurance company made with the policy holder so none of them apply to you should you be hit by an untaxed car. They have to pay the 3rd party out.

 

 

 

Exactly ,under what proviso would they be able to 'wriggle ' out of it ?

 

 

 

You are not allowed to speed, does that mean when you get pulled over for speeding they can do you for driving without insurance as well?

 

Not to my knowledge ,but there have been instances of drink driving where they have refused to pay out on the damage to YOUR car.

[timps]

 

THAT is what I was trying to clarify.

 

 

Exactly ,under what proviso would they be able to 'wriggle ' out of it ?

 

 

Not to my knowledge ,but there have been instances of drink driving where they have refused to pay out on the damage to YOUR car.

 

The provisos they can wriggle out of it are as I stated, ‘contributing factor to the accident or significantly reduces the value of your car’. If they can prove lack of car tax does either of those then they can either not pay or pay a reduced amount to you the policy holder but your whole policy is not invalid, it still covers 3rd parties.

 

Drink driving comes under the contributing factor of the accident, but your insurance is still not invalid to 3rd parties so you do not commit an offence of driving without insurance which is what I was discussing. Also, drink driving is an endorsable offence that will result in you losing your license, driving without road tax is not.

 

As has been said not having car tax does not automatically invalidate your insurance, if your insurance was invalid they wouldn’t have to pay out 3rd parties and you would commit an offence.

 

When they come to paying out on your car they try and not pay out for a whole host of reasons some justifiable, some not. When you force their hand and take the matter further they know at court they have to state why no car tax is a valid reason not to pay out. Just because it might be in their terms and conditions is not good enough reason alone for the judge as he/she can class them as unfair terms and conditions.

 

Drink driving is easy, you crashed the car because you were drunk, they are going to have a hard time trying to argue you crashed the car due to lack of road tax.

[Westley]

Am I glad that I pay £245 a year then ?................................................er, I think

[Red-dot]

Ignorance of the law is no defence. You can check the expiry date of your tax & MOT and insurance in five minutes online. It is your responsibility not anyone else.

[Davyo]

Ignorance of the law is no defence. You can check the expiry date of your tax & MOT and insurance in five minutes online. It is your responsibility not anyone else.

Wouldnt hold your breath there mate.Renewed it Saturday morning and have confirmation email.Have just checked the Gov.Uk website and its still showing as untaxed.So even after 24hrs it STILL hasnt updated,welcome to the digital age & thank god i have two cars.