Jeremy Corbyn wants to force a general election

[Newbie to this]

 

It has been proven time and time again that despite all the well wishing and promises to the contrary that as soon as the tax payer is asked to stump up they complain.

 

I don't think we would complain as much if our government stopped giving our tax away to charity and to people who refuse to work because, why should they work when someone else will pay for them.

 

[grrclark]

 

Its the same in all forms of life. That's why Sports Direct exist and Nike use child labour. Its all sanctioned by the public wanting to pay less.

 

Absolutely, yet we all love to be outraged by the working practices of the companies that are born from our being greedy.

 

The harsh truth is that if we were to give the wider general public charge of the controls it would end up in a bloody great train wreck really quickly. We are all brilliant at knowing what is best for ourselves or maybe even what is best for a group of us that share the same values, interests, etc, however society is made up by such a wide diversity that the majority of us don't really comprehend the scale of it.

 

If i ever need a reminded of just how diverse and to be blunt how fundamentally stupid people are I read the comments on news stories on Facebook, it has me simultaneously marvel at how some people actually can navigate their way through life in spite of their utter stupidity and also despair at the hopelessness of it all.

[UKPoacher]

 

Absolutely, yet we all love to be outraged by the working practices of the companies that are born from our being greedy.

 

The harsh truth is that if we were to give the wider general public charge of the controls it would end up in a bloody great train wreck really quickly. We are all brilliant at knowing what is best for ourselves or maybe even what is best for a group of us that share the same values, interests, etc, however society is made up by such a wide diversity that the majority of us don't really comprehend the scale of it.

 

If i ever need a reminded of just how diverse and to be blunt how fundamentally stupid people are I read the comments on news stories on Facebook, it has me simultaneously marvel at how some people actually can navigate their way through life in spite of their utter stupidity and also despair at the hopelessness of it all.

 

But at least they can publish a photo of their lunch

[grrclark]

I don't think we would complain as much if our government stopped giving our tax away to charity and to people who refuse to work because, why should they work when someone else will pay for them.

People will always complain. It is the fundamental inequality of life, some people earn more, can shoot better, pull better looking girls or boys, can wear 32" waist jeans (skinny *****) or whatever and so therefor someone somewhere will always feel hard done by and moan that it isn't fair, if only they had the same opportunity, etc, etc

 

Those with less want what those with more have and those with more think why the hell should I give them my stuff.

 

That's why cavemen invented clubs and then came the stick with a nail in it, then a sword, then a gun, then lots of guns. It's the nature of being.

[Vince Green]

People will always complain. It is the fundamental inequality of life, some people earn more, can shoot better, pull better looking girls or boys, can wear 32" waist jeans (skinny *****) or whatever and so therefor someone somewhere will always feel hard done by and moan that it isn't fair, if only they had the same opportunity, etc, etc

 

Those with less want what those with more have and those with more think why the hell should I give them my stuff.

 

That's why cavemen invented clubs and then came the stick with a nail in it, then a sword, then a gun, then lots of guns. It's the nature of being.

People will always complain its true but what about when those complaints are justified and get ignored as a warning sign? So many people were unhappy about the issues yet the politicians were taken by surprise when they voted for Brexit.

 

People complain because they are unhappy.

[grrclark]

People will always complain its true but what about when those complaints are justified and get ignored as a warning sign? So many people were unhappy about the issues yet the politicians were taken by surprise when they voted for Brexit.

 

People complain because they are unhappy.

 

That's absolutely true Vince, but the unhappiness is relative. The point is we will always find something to be unhappy about.

 

Back to the point of my rambling, if we had a political party that only did the bidding of the people it would be a nightmare, because the people are a nightmare.

 

Government cannot simply be an exercise in popularity. It is the easiest thing in the world to take decisions that make you popular, but that doesn't make you effective.

Edited November 8, 2016 by grrclark

[UKPoacher]

 

That's absolutely true Vince, but the unhappiness is relative. The point is we will always find something to be unhappy about.

 

Back to the point of my rambling, if we had a political party that only did the bidding of the people it would be a nightmare, because the people are a nightmare.

 

Government cannot simply be an exercise in popularity. It is the easiest thing in the world to take decisions that make you popular, but that doesn't make you effective.

 

As proven with the Bliar / Broon Governments. They chased public opinion only to find out that the only people prepared to interact with local governments were serial moaners. Just go to any local policing forum or parish council meeting to see what I mean. Full of people who aren't happy unless they have something to moan about. The silent majority stay silent and the vocal ones are the obsessive moaners. So the police and councils spent all their time and money prosecuting people for dropping litter or not picking up their dog's poo and banging people's head together in six of one, half dozen of the other arguments.

[grrclark]

 

As proven with the Bliar / Broon Governments. They chased public opinion only to find out that the only people prepared to interact with local governments were serial moaners. Just go to any local policing forum or parish council meeting to see what I mean. Full of people who aren't happy unless they have something to moan about. The silent majority stay silent and the vocal ones are the obsessive moaners. So the police and councils spent all their time and money prosecuting people for dropping litter or not picking up their dog's poo and banging people's head together in six of one, half dozen of the other arguments.

Exactly, then the silent majority throw a Brexit or Trump shaped bomb into the mix and the political class are bewildered about where that came from.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

 

That's absolutely true Vince, but the unhappiness is relative. The point is we will always find something to be unhappy about.

 

Back to the point of my rambling, if we had a political party that only did the bidding of the people it would be a nightmare, because the people are a nightmare.

 

Government cannot simply be an exercise in popularity. It is the easiest thing in the world to take decisions that make you popular, but that doesn't make you effective.

 

 

 

As proven with the Bliar / Broon Governments. They chased public opinion only to find out that the only people prepared to interact with local governments were serial moaners. Just go to any local policing forum or parish council meeting to see what I mean. Full of people who aren't happy unless they have something to moan about. The silent majority stay silent and the vocal ones are the obsessive moaners. So the police and councils spent all their time and money prosecuting people for dropping litter or not picking up their dog's poo and banging people's head together in six of one, half dozen of the other arguments.

 

 

Exactly, then the silent majority throw a Brexit or Trump shaped bomb into the mix and the political class are bewildered about where that came from.

 

I wonder if the professional politicians wil take any notice of these results?

[grrclark]

I wonder if the professional politicians wil take any notice of these results?

They have to Dave, their very being relies upon it.

 

There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth by the self appointed righteous who will bemoan the ignorance and stupidity of the voter who didn't really know what they were voting for.

 

They will tell us all how it is an afront to their decency and their values.

 

They will tell us how wrong it all is, how it shouldn't be because it is beyond the scale of their comprehension how this could happen.

 

What the self appointed righteous will fail to see is that 'their values, their sense of decency, their comprehension, etc' is only just that, it is theirs. What they think is not what everyone thinks, but they are so blinded by arrogance to believe it is.

 

Politicians stopped listening a long time ago and it is starting to bite hard that was a very bad mistake.

 

In the context of this thread that is why a Corbyn can exist as he does, there are a lot of people who value his politics. Thankfully not enough of them to vote him into power, but he represents a lot of people.

 

So long as we had fights for the centre ground we were silencing the voice of so many who were disaffected.

 

UKIP learned that early, i don't believe they are far right by any measure, but they gave people a voice who felt strongly about some very big issues.

 

Many of the self appointed righteous will talk how Brexit legitimised racism and it is said to be the same of Trump, but the truth is that we stiffled any discussion about the big issues of immigration by labeling it racism, the self appointed righteous tried to hide it away like the dirty little family secret.

 

All the while real people, not racists or biggots, but real people talked about it between themselves getting more and more angry at being censored, at being told to pipe down with their ignorant opinions and when the chance cane there was a bloody great wave of people who all thought the very same.

 

Not just immigration of course, it is way more complex than a single issue.

 

Brexit and Trump are the same animal. It is also partly true of the SNP with many Scottish voters, many who just want change hung their banner onto that bandwagon.

 

The discussions about what the self appointed righteous deem as unpalatable has to come back into the open public debate.

 

I very much hope that the era of political correctness is coming to an end. That doesn't mean we should return to the offensive behaviour of the past, but we need to stop denying discussion or stopping debate by tagging someone a racist, a biggot, a xenophobe, etc.

 

We need to actually openly start discussing the things that real people discuss all the time if we want to have the trust of real people.

[Gordon R]

I have to agree with

Brexit and Trump are the same animal.

 

 

The same appears to be happening in Germany. Ordinary people seem to be tired of being told that if they don't vote for the status quo, they are somehow stupid, racist, xenophobic, out of touch with the business world etc.

 

Whilst there will always be people who are unhappy, there seems to be a surplus of them at present.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Gordon R

[grrclark]

It's happening all over the world Gordon.

 

I think people are fed up at seeing an erosion of their cultural values and belief sytems at the expense of globalism.

 

That's not jingoism or xenophobia or racsim or anything else, it is simply people don't like having their identity rewritten for them.

[Scully]

 

Although a great sentiment the truth is the tax payer will always want more for less and that quickly becomes ineffective.

 

It has been proven time and time again that despite all the well wishing and promises to the contrary that as soon as the tax payer is asked to stump up they complain.

 

To achieve real change we need to stop politicising the things that need changing, i.e. the NHS, and actually support change happening. So long as our politics is a popularity contest we will zig zag along making skittery changes around the edges and not actually seeing any real or meaningful reform.

It's good to have you back grrclark. The voice of common sense..

[Gordon R]

Agreed.

[Harnser]

Good posts from Grrclark , I am convinced that brexit and trumps victory are much the same . The ordinary little man in the street is now wanting to be counted. I am fed up with being told that I m racist because I want to close our borders to mass immigration. I am fed up with political correctness,I am fed up with professional politicians. I am fed up with listening to that poisoness dwarf north of the border trying to break up the union . I have got to stop ,my blood pressure is going up . Long live the little man .

Harnser