Old muskets and black powder

[la bala]

I was just watching an old film which got me thinking. Back in those days, what would happen if you primed it a couple of times and the main charge failed to ignite, is there any way you can unload. Probably a stupid question, its my age.

Edited January 29, 2017 by la bala

[JohnfromUK]

Some of the ramrods had a corkscrew like thing on one end (usually under a screw in cover) that was used to 'draw the charge'. Not sure how common these were as my only muzzle loader doesn't have one.

[moongeese]

Some of the ramrods had a corkscrew like thing on one end (usually under a screw in cover) that was used to 'draw the charge'. Not sure how common these were as my only muzzle loader doesn't have one.

 

That's correct, all my muzzle loaders ramrods are fitted with a brass thread on the end , which is protected by a screw on cover .If you have charged the gun with dry powder, there should be no problem, and if you had a miss fire, cleaning out the nipple, and topping it up with fresh fine black powder, a new cap on, and you should have no problem.

[la bala]

Thanks for the comments guys.

[JohnfromUK]

 

That's correct, all my muzzle loaders ramrods are fitted with a brass thread on the end , which is protected by a screw on cover .If you have charged the gun with dry powder, there should be no problem, and if you had a miss fire, cleaning out the nipple, and topping it up with fresh fine black powder, a new cap on, and you should have no problem.

I suspect mine should have one; The ramrod is broken (missing the 'pointed end') and about 3" too short. The gun (made in 1810) was owned by my (now sadly late) godfather and he used it using a garden bamboo cane as a ramrod. It started life as a flint gun, but has been converted to percussion. It was in his family for over 150 years, though he didn't know if it had been in the family from new. I have had it fully checked/vetted by a gunsmith (it is listed on my certificate) and it is in fully usable condition, but I haven't used it too date, and really should get my BP license etc and give it a go.

[bruno22rf]

Fibreglass ram rods can be easily made and , I think, Kranks stock the tips. As for clearing a BP if she constantly refuses to pop...you can remove the nipple and trickle powder into the hole then fire the beast.

[clakk]

There,s a lot of accounts from Gettysburg and places American where when they cleared the battlefield Muskets had 4/5 or 6 balls rammed down them as the shots were flying panicked soldiers kept reloading without firing and when killed their overshotted Muskets were laid unfired at their feet .If you get stuck contact Derbyshire Arms they specialise in all things Musket and black powder ,01283 520937,very nice peeps who supplied the weapons for Sharpe the tv show and the 200th year Waterloo shindig atb

[figgy]

Are you not better using the moder equivalent to black powder.

Shame the fella with jess the dog and bendy barrel the gun I can't remember his name at the minute isn't still a member he was a front stuffer fan and shot his guns regularly.

[JohnfromUK]

Are you not better using the modern equivalent to black powder.

 

I think you mean this; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_powder_substitute

 

I have questioned various muzzle loader friends on this and the overall outcome is 'don't in an old gun'. Some cite poor ignition, some variable pressures. Overall, traditional old black seems much preferred.

 

I have a number of friends who muzzle load - and it is really just laziness that I don't get mine going. License should be OK, just need to buy (or make) suitable wooden container, get some measures, shot, wadding, caps and I'm about there. But it takes a lot of (very dirty) cleaning afterwards. A gunmaker friend was only today threatening to persuade me to start using it, so I expect it will happen some day ......

[Vince Green]

I use triple 7 in mine and I can't really tell the difference. Its great fun shooting it but cleaning gets to be a real drag. In answer to the OP, they always go off eventually. I'm going to regret saying that now

[Feltwad]

I was just watching an old film which got me thinking. Back in those days, what would happen if you primed it a couple of times and the main charge failed to ignite, is there any way you can unload. Probably a stupid question, its my age.

What you described is more a militaria flintlock and not a sporting gun in percussion .It there is what is known has a flash in the pan this is sometimes cleared with cleaning the touch hole If this fails and you have to draw the charge then you use a militaria style rod with is made of iron with a worm {corkscrew} attached has most of these muskets were made to fire round ball a wooden rod would not last long and soon break

For a sporting shotgun in both flint and percussion all when made were fitted with a ebony ramrod fitted with covered ramrod worm which were suitable and strong enough to draw both felt and card wads from the bore

Has for powder I only use black powder the modern stuff such has pydorex is very corrosive and for the musket I use 2F blackpowder also on bore sizes larger than 12 bore for the standard 12,14,16, 20 I use 3F or medium grain powder.

Feltwad

Shotgun ramrods with capped worm

 

Flintlock Militaria Musket

Edited January 31, 2017 by Feltwad

[Evilv]

I suspect mine should have one; The ramrod is broken (missing the 'pointed end') and about 3" too short. The gun (made in 1810) was owned by my (now sadly late) godfather and he used it using a garden bamboo cane as a ramrod. It started life as a flint gun, but has been converted to percussion. It was in his family for over 150 years, though he didn't know if it had been in the family from new. I have had it fully checked/vetted by a gunsmith (it is listed on my certificate) and it is in fully usable condition, but I haven't used it too date, and really should get my BP license etc and give it a go.

 

If you don't want the bother of the Black Powder Cert, you can just rock up and buy a tub of Pyrodex RS at your local gun shop. I paid £32 a pound for mine which is a bit pricey but not so much as to stop me dabbling with BP home loads in an old sbs. It works GREAT. I used to shoot BP in the 80s and had a BP Cert then and to be honest, the Pyrodex does the job just the same. You load it at the same volumes as BP. It is 30% lighter than BP for the same volume, so don't weigh out the measures unless you male the correction. I think most muzzle loaders and BP cartridge reloaders use a volume measure anyway. Give it a try. It would be great to have a real old heirloom like that.

 

I remember when my old .58 Enfield musket misfired a couple of times and wouldn't go off, I just unscrewed the nipple, poked a stout pin down into the chamber to clear the passage, put a bit of fresh powder down into the passage, and poked out the nipple before replacing it and re-capping. The charge fired faultlessly after that.

[Feltwad]

 

If you don't want the bother of the Black Powder Cert, you can just rock up and buy a tub of Pyrodex RS at your local gun shop. I paid £32 a pound for mine which is a bit pricey but not so much as to stop me dabbling with BP home loads in an old sbs. It works GREAT. I used to shoot BP in the 80s and had a BP Cert then and to be honest, the Pyrodex does the job just the same. You load it at the same volumes as BP. It is 30% lighter than BP for the same volume, so don't weigh out the measures unless you male the correction. I think most muzzle loaders and BP cartridge reloaders use a volume measure anyway. Give it a try. It would be great to have a real old heirloom like that.

 

I remember when my old .58 Enfield musket misfired a couple of times and wouldn't go off, I just unscrewed the nipple, poked a stout pin down into the chamber to clear the passage, put a bit of fresh powder down into the passage, and poked out the nipple before replacing it and re-capping. The charge fired faultlessly after that.

 

Ever person to his own choice but for me it is the original black powder and not Pyrodex it is very corrosive .

Feltwad

 

This was the best original black powder pity it is no longer available

Edited February 3, 2017 by Feltwad

[Evilv]

Yes Feltwad, it is said to be more corrosive, but it does wash out easier I understand. When I had my BP cert it was dead easy. All you needed was a wooden box with brass furniture. Now the HSE has defined some fancy, partitioned box. A bit unnecessary when all most of us keep in it is one tin or one tin and a nearly empty one. The box costs about £75 plus postage. Then there is the nonsense of having a police permit AND another cert for transporting it. We are in the power of mad bureaucrats, manufacturing rules and hoops to jump through.

 

I used to buy the Curtis and Harvey stuff back in the 1980s. It worked very well and unlike pyrodex, it ran through the spout of a powder flask cleanly without clogging and having to be shaken out by tapping. Pyrodex seems clingy if you know what I mean. It does go off with a nice big bang though and my home loaded cartridges have accounted for about twenty fat pheasants this last season.

 

I had problems with holes being burned in the cases after a couple of uses, but I more or less sorted that by making a short paper insert from printer paper that I poked into the case on loading and then poured the powder in via a funnel. This protected the case wall from the worst of the heat and was almost totally consumed by the combustion of the charge. It left small amounts of featherweight ash and fragments of paper in the case and up the tubes on firing, but they were no sort of obstruction as long as only ordinary paper bought for printers was used. Card was too heavy and lodged in the barrels. With paper, even a gentle blow up the tube with the lips about two inches from the breach would send the ashes out the end. Not so with card. I had to rod that out with a long reed I plucked from the ground.

 

I'd really like to use brass cases, but the Magtec ones need pistol primers and I anticipate more nonsense over obtaining them... We have too many jobsworths in this country.

 

 

I wrote a tale of my pheasant hunting on a blog here ->

 

http://smokepolehunting.blogspot.co.uk/

Edited February 3, 2017 by Evilv

[Feltwad]

Evilv my first tin of Curtiss and Harvey powder I bought from Steve Smiths shop maybe you remember it which was in Friar Street Newcastle which is not now there for the costly price of 7 shillings and 6 pence which was many decades ago ,that then was the only place that kept it. Also do you remember the black powder muzzle loaders at the game fair at Bywell next to the river tyne

Feltwad

[Evilv]

I didn't know about Bywell Feltwad.

 

LOL Steve Smiths.... That brings back a memory or ten... I used to go in there around 1966 when I was 15, asking about garden guns which was just about what I could afford. It was up a lane near Grey's Monument. The garden guns were only a few quid. There was a lady there that used to deal kindly with my stupid questions about whether I could shoot rabbits with a garden gun or a cheap air rifle. I didn't buy one though, but I spent a lot of time gazing at their guns.

 

Later they moved somewhere near Nun Street I think, and I dealt with them for 12 bore cartridges and they had the stock of my Essex altered from right cast. I didn't buy any guns from them, but I went to Bagnal and Kirkwoods. In fact I bought this from them just two days ago... Fancy a bit of Zulu Action.... I do. As soon as I have some cases formed to the chamber (my other home loads won't chamber because the other gun is obviously a bit bigger in the chamber) I'll be firing smokey loads at the rabbits and pigeons and crows.

 

 

 

One thing about loading your own, I've noticed that you can make them pattern differently by varying shot to powder loads, or making card shot protectors that work like plastic wads. My farmer pal doesn't want plastic wads lying about.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

Edited February 3, 2017 by Evilv