Heavy 12g loads

[njc110381]

What's the heaviest load you can get for a 12g in a 3.5 inch case? I want to get some to try in my Xtrema, and would also like them to be good for fox. I'd like AAA if possible, and lead shot. Basically I want to see what a huge load feels like through the gun, but it would be good if the leftovers serve a purpose too

[njc110381]

So far, the best I can find are Nobelsport 56g #0

[MC]

Clever Mirage do a 66g which you can get a no. 2 shot, They poosibly do a BB. These are lead shot,

 

In a non toxic about 56g is the heaviest.

[starlight32]

I have home loaded 63g with SG in a Federal premium 3.5" case, when I patterned them I found many blank spots.

I was using on another occasion AAA Buffaloe's on a vermin shoot and had a fox at 25 yards and only broke its leg, it still had plenty of life in it. I had a 32g 6 behind it and that dropped it stone dead!

Again too many breaks in the pattern!!!!

 

As for trying out the heavier loads in your auto, you will probably notice very little difference, as the recoil system on the Extrema is one of the best.

 

Dont forget factory loads in 3.5" are running in at around £1.50 a throw!!!

[njc110381]

Maybe a BB load would be better then. I'm not too bothered about the cost, a box will last me quite some time so it'll be money well spent

[tikkamark]

remington do a 50g no6 load they are 3" magums but are very effective on foxes and no gaps in your pattern i have shot foxes side on stone dead right out to 40yrds

[henry d]

My twopenneth....

 

Remmy No6`s(= uk No5`s) 390 pellets and good pattern @ 40yds each pellet has app. 1.9 ftlbs

 

Nobelsport are french so 56gm(almost 2oz)0`s 142ish pellets @ 40 yds app. 8.25+ ftlbs

 

Clever mirage are Italian so 66gm No2`s 265 pellets @ 40yds app. 6 ftlbs :blink: :blink: Pattern and penetration, I know which I`d use for fox.

[al4x]

you also have to bear in mind Henry that the number of pellets in the zone is larger with the 6's so you get more hitting with that power which do add up. But somewhere between 1's and 4's give the best combination for foxes. I've used SSG's before and never again having killed the muntjack I was aiming at I also hit a landrover at a 45 degree angle away and 70 yards away, the shot bounced off a tree behind where I was aiming you simply don't get this with the smaller shot. fortunately it didn't do any damage but it was a wake up call all the same.

[MC]

Hitting power doesn't add up, if the pellets haven't got the energy to penetrate then 100 will bounce off the same as 1 will. If a no.6 shot only has 1.9 ft lbs at 40 yds it doesn't mean that 100 of them have 190ft lbs

 

If you set out to shoot foxes with anything less than say a no.3 shot then you really need to gain more experience in what a shotgun is capable of.

 

I don't mean the odd flukey shot that everyone has made at some point. I mean a well placed hard hitting shot that will kill cleanly everytime.

 

We all know people who have shot a pigeon at 80yds witha skeet cartridge, but noone knows anyone who does it consistently or humanely.

[Suffolk shooter]

Dont forget factory loads in 3.5" are running in at around £1.50 a throw!!!

 

I bought 3.5" Magnum 56g BB's for 12.75 for 25 fromJohn Forsey's in Steel. Brings down Canadas lovely so why not a fox on the ground?

 

SS

[al4x]

Hitting power doesn't add up, if the pellets haven't got the energy to penetrate then 100 will bounce off the same as 1 will. If a no.6 shot only has 1.9 ft lbs at 40 yds it doesn't mean that 100 of them have 190ft lbs

 

If you set out to shoot foxes with anything less than say a no.3 shot then you really need to gain more experience in what a shotgun is capable of.

 

I don't mean the odd flukey shot that everyone has made at some point. I mean a well placed hard hitting shot that will kill cleanly everytime.

 

We all know people who have shot a pigeon at 80yds witha skeet cartridge, but noone knows anyone who does it consistently or humanely.

 

 

If you think no 6 shot will bounce off at 40 yards I'd like to see you proove it by standing there. A shotgun is one of the more powerful weapons available in terms of killing power. I've never set out to shoot foxes with 6's but have shot more than a few on driven days and believe me 1.6ft lbs or not they certainly kill. OK if I was on a fox drive it would be different and usually it would be 1's

[henry d]

I bought 3.5" Magnum 56g BB's for 12.75 for 25 fromJohn Forsey's in Steel. Brings down Canadas lovely so why not a fox on the ground?

 

 

Because it is generally accepted that steel is equivalent to 2-3 shot sizes smaller than lead, Steel BB`s = 3 or 4`s and that steel tends to puncture rather than shed it`s energy by deforming and transmitting it`s full energy. It also has a tendancy to ricochet badly especially if you are shooting downwards!

 

A fox has less protecting it`s heart/lungs muscle wise than a canada but most of the wildfowl I shoot that are stone dead seem to be hit in the neck/head area and a foxes spine will take a lot of breaking.

 

I believe that BASC also frown on steels use for fox.

[MC]

Hitting power doesn't add up, if the pellets haven't got the energy to penetrate then 100 will bounce off the same as 1 will. If a no.6 shot only has 1.9 ft lbs at 40 yds it doesn't mean that 100 of them have 190ft lbs

 

If you set out to shoot foxes with anything less than say a no.3 shot then you really need to gain more experience in what a shotgun is capable of.

 

I don't mean the odd flukey shot that everyone has made at some point. I mean a well placed hard hitting shot that will kill cleanly everytime.

 

We all know people who have shot a pigeon at 80yds witha skeet cartridge, but noone knows anyone who does it consistently or humanely.

 

 

If you think no 6 shot will bounce off at 40 yards I'd like to see you proove it by standing there. A shotgun is one of the more powerful weapons available in terms of killing power. I've never set out to shoot foxes with 6's but have shot more than a few on driven days and believe me 1.6ft lbs or not they certainly kill. OK if I was on a fox drive it would be different and usually it would be 1's

 

Have you never seen a pheasant which is covered in bruises rather than holes? 40yds is the extreme effective killing range of a shotgun.

 

Obviously apart from the SUPER shotgun that you have.

[pavman]

Maybe a BB load would be better then. I'm not too bothered about the cost, a box will last me quite some time so it'll be money well spent

 

I load a nice 64g Steel load for my 10 bore 3 1/2 goose carts in BB which gives 165 pellets, you dont want to stand in front of it at 50 yards! the same in lead will be around 25% more weight I guess, so in theory you could go to around 80g in a home load 12G 3 3½, "oh yea"

[JRDS]

you also have to bear in mind Henry that the number of pellets in the zone is larger with the 6's so you get more hitting with that power which do add up. But somewhere between 1's and 4's give the best combination for foxes. I've used SSG's before and never again having killed the muntjack I was aiming at I also hit a landrover at a 45 degree angle away and 70 yards away, the shot bounced off a tree behind where I was aiming you simply don't get this with the smaller shot. fortunately it didn't do any damage but it was a wake up call all the same.

 

Deer with a shotgun??

[JohnGalway]

Used to use Remington 64gm BB's Express Long Range 3.5" for fox. I can tell you they don't like them, neither do crows I was feeling mischevious...

 

115 pellets a time, can't find the **** now though the dealers not getting them in...

[naddan28]

A shotgun is one of the more powerful weapons available in terms of killing power.

Is it really!?!? I wouldn't agree with that, surely a .cf or even a rimfire is more effective. Shotguns are not powerful, you are relying on the pattern not the power, hence why they are not effective over 40yds. Where as even a rf is good to 80yds+.

 

Dan

[njc110381]

A shotgun is one of the more powerful weapons available in terms of killing power.

Is it really!?!? I wouldn't agree with that, surely a .cf or even a rimfire is more effective. Shotguns are not powerful, you are relying on the pattern not the power, hence why they are not effective over 40yds. Where as even a rf is good to 80yds+.

 

Dan

 

 

The muzzle energy is enormous from a 12g with a big shell in it, probably pushing .308 standards! At under 10 yards, they'll take down a bull with SGs! It's the pattern spread and lack of ballistic efficiency in the pellets that lets it down at long range. Look at a slug, the projectile is half the weight of the contents of a magnum load and it will destroy anything in it's path withing 100 yards! Don't confuse power with efficiency of the projectiles. Shot spread is what lets them down at range

[Dirty Harry]

NCJ110381,

 

I have some magnums, 40 or 50g at the farm. If you cant find anything big you can try these.

 

Harry

[njc110381]

Ok, thanks! I have some 42g rounds, if yours are bigger I'll pinch a couple. Can you remember where you bought them?

[Dirty Harry]

I think it was this place.

 

Spadwick Motors

 

Unit 1/Lower Road Trading Est

Ledbury, HR8 2DJ 01531 633606

 

It's a garage that do loads of clays and carts at very good prices.

 

Harry

[henry d]

The muzzle energy is enormous from a 12g with a big shell in it, probably pushing .308 standards! At under 10 yards, they'll take down a bull with SGs! It's the pattern spread and lack of ballistic efficiency in the pellets that lets it down at long range. Look at a slug, the projectile is half the weight of the contents of a magnum load and it will destroy anything in it's path withing 100 yards! Don't confuse power with efficiency of the projectiles. Shot spread is what lets them down at range

 

Rubbish, how many bulls have you shot??

 

Define a "Big Shell"

 

Most slugs are 28gm in 12 bore and a magnum load is designated by pressure!

 

[MC]

A shotgun is one of the more powerful weapons available in terms of killing power.

Is it really!?!? I wouldn't agree with that, surely a .cf or even a rimfire is more effective. Shotguns are not powerful, you are relying on the pattern not the power, hence why they are not effective over 40yds. Where as even a rf is good to 80yds+.

 

Dan

 

 

The muzzle energy is enormous from a 12g with a big shell in it, probably pushing .308 standards! At under 10 yards, they'll take down a bull with SGs! It's the pattern spread and lack of ballistic efficiency in the pellets that lets it down at long range. Look at a slug, the projectile is half the weight of the contents of a magnum load and it will destroy anything in it's path withing 100 yards! Don't confuse power with efficiency of the projectiles. Shot spread is what lets them down at range

 

 

And a .308 will kill at well over a mile, muzzle energy is one thing, actual striking energy is something else.

[naddan28]

It's the pattern spread and lack of ballistic efficiency in the pellets that lets it down at long range.

Its more to do with the lack of rifling in the barrel than the individual efficieny of each shot. If you shot each shot individually through a custom built rifle it would be accurate to beyond 40yds. The problem is the lack of spin inparted on the shot and the fact a shotgun "chucks" lead in the air without any rifling and direction.

 

MC is right the rifle barrel gives a projectile with less muzzle velocity more range obviously the areodynamic shape helps but its the spin enparted on the projectile is paramount.

[njc110381]

The muzzle energy is enormous from a 12g with a big shell in it, probably pushing .308 standards! At under 10 yards, they'll take down a bull with SGs! It's the pattern spread and lack of ballistic efficiency in the pellets that lets it down at long range. Look at a slug, the projectile is half the weight of the contents of a magnum load and it will destroy anything in it's path withing 100 yards! Don't confuse power with efficiency of the projectiles. Shot spread is what lets them down at range

 

Rubbish, how many bulls have you shot??

 

Define a "Big Shell"

 

Most slugs are 28gm in 12 bore and a magnum load is designated by pressure!

 

 

 

I haven't shot any bulls. I think "figure of speach" is the phrase I'm looking for, not everything has to be based on 100% fact to get a point across! If some ****** wants to try it then it's not my problem, they shouldn't have a gun if they're that stupid!

 

My idea of a big shell is over 40g. They are indeed magnums because of the pressure, but the extra pressure is usually created by trying to push a heavier load at nearly the same speed as a light one right??

 

28g is the weight of an average 12g slug, so 56g (the approximate weight of a "big shell") is double the weight of a slug?

 

Sometimes I don't use exact science to make a point, but that doesn't mean I'm stupid. Why talk to me like I am?