Ive moderated my shotgun

[Daveo26]

My brother and I shoot on a patch of land close to a horses paddock, after a recent conversation we decided quieter shotguns would be advantageous.

So we picked up a couple of single barrel Baikals and some subsonic cartridges from the local gun shop

For £34 each and set to planning a reflex type mod.

I've taken quite a few photos and made a film with the best of them.

Thought I'd share it here.

If you can dream it you can build it..........

[lancer425]

Looks good well done is it very quiet how much of a difference will it make to sound i have never heard a 12ga with a moderator on.

Would you say its comparable to say a 243 with a typical full bore moderator for example ? Or is it more or less i am just tryi ng to get an idea on effectiveness that’s all.

[krugerandsmith]

My brother and I shoot on a patch of land close to a horses paddock, after a recent conversation we decided quieter shotguns would be advantageous.

So we picked up a couple of single barrel Baikals and some subsonic cartridges from the local gun shop

For £34 each and set to planning a reflex type mod.

I've taken quite a few photos and made a film with the best of them.

Thought I'd share it here.

If you can dream it you can build it..........

 

 

If you have the machinery. ...... Good job ... Well done.

[Daveo26]

Looks good well done is it very quiet how much of a difference will it make to sound i have never heard a 12ga with a moderator on.

Would you say its comparable to say a 243 with a typical full bore moderator for example ? Or is it more or less i am just tryi ng to get an idea on effectiveness that’s all.

No, it's not very quiet.

It's difficult to explain how quiet it is or isn't.

If you shoot a high speed cartridge and a subsonic from a regular gun there is a noticeable difference in noise

Then shooting a sub through the moderated gun is the same sort of difference again.

It makes the most obvious difference in noise from 50-60 yards away then it's more of a click less of a BOOM.

I hope that makes sense.

If you have the machinery. ...... Good job ... Well done.

Well yeah but engineering workshops are all over and they can all follow plans.

I'm fortunate enough to know a tame engineer but I'm a pest controller by trade.

[Ultrastu]

Did you put any baffles in there ?

I didn't see any .

Usually without baffles an empty tube can almost amplify the noise .

A baffle stack will help slow down the expanding gasses and allow them to expand backwards into the reflex portion of the mod . Without them the gasses accelerate forwards out the front .

A .moderated gun from saddelry and gun room have thier barrels drilled and ported along the length allowing gasses to bleed off as the shot goes down the barrel .

[Cranfield]

Interesting idea, I have a Hushpower 20ga O/U and the barrels are ported and there is a section of baffles near the end of the moderator tube, all produce the moderated sound.

Your film did not show much real detail, did you port the barrels and fit baffles ?

[Daveo26]

No the initial idea was simply a tube no porting or baffles to see what kind of reduction we get.

Unfortunately the app for measuring noise does not work well.

And sound is a strange thing to judge so until I can find away of measuring noise I'm leaving it as it is.

The muzzle end bush is ported to allow gas to flow back into the can.

The hush powers I've seen where a ported barrel and just an empty can.

The thinking was you can't unport the barrel but I can add some and add baffles

Did you put any baffles in there ?

I didn't see any .

Usually without baffles an empty tube can almost amplify the noise .A baffle stack will help slow down the expanding gasses and allow them to expand backwards into the reflex portion of the mod . Without them the gasses accelerate forwards out the front .A .moderated gun from saddelry and gun room have thier barrels drilled and ported along the length allowing gasses to bleed off as the shot goes down the barrel .

I've thought about this ported barrel thing

I'm sure I read somewhere the porting is to bleed off gas to slow down the shot to make is subsonic?

Being as I'm planning on using subs anyway I thought I'd give it a go without any why slow subs down?

[Cranfield]

Its my experience that the difference between the shot noise from a standard gun with, or without subs, is noticeably louder than the shot noise from a Hushpower , with or without subs.

Although it is even more quieter with subsonic cartridges.

 

Please don't think I am criticising what you have done, I think you are brave to take something like this on, way out of my skill level.

[lancer425]

No, it's not very quiet.

It's difficult to explain how quiet it is or isn't.

If you shoot a high speed cartridge and a subsonic from a regular gun there is a noticeable difference in noise

Then shooting a sub through the moderated gun is the same sort of difference again.

It makes the most obvious difference in noise from 50-60 yards away then it's more of a click less of a BOOM.

I hope that makes sense.

 

All right thanks i still think it could have its uses though judging by your description.

Subsonic ammo is the way forwards then rather than just moderating a gun and just running standard ammo through it.

I suppose like .22 rifles the semi autos wont be just as silent as a fixed breach ? is that right or being louder if it less noticeable in shotguns. And i then there is cycling i guess some subsonic ammo might have the potential to fail to cycle some autos.

A few things to take into account when you think about it, interesting project though you have all the same.

[sitsinhedges]

Sorry but that's a job half done.

[Daveo26]

Sorry but that's a job half done.

Yeah that's about the size of it................

Have you read what's been written or just jumped in to criticise?

[sitsinhedges]

Yeah that's about the size of it................

Have you read what's been written or just jumped in to criticise?

 

I've watched the video. If a job is worth doing it's worth doing properly. Port the barrel and make some plates forward of the muzzle and you will have a good tool.

[labstaff]

If you port the barrels, do you have to get them re-proofed?

[Old farrier]

If you port the barrels, do you have to get them re-proofed?

Only if you sell it

Not for your own use

 

It's a bit of a tricky job getting the burrs off the porting holes on the inside of the barrel but you're capable and will work it out

Found getting the holes in the baffle plates important and central hole the smallest to nearly bore size helped

 

 

 

All the best

Of

[sitsinhedges]

If you port the barrels, do you have to get them re-proofed?

 

Only for your peace of mind but you would still have to scrap it rather than sell on because you can't do such work for others without the relevant authority/RFD status.

 

I did a 20g one a few years back, still have it. It's all at your own risk of course but I copied the porting on a Hushpower and it worked well.

[Ultrastu]

You have to get it reproofed now it has a mod on it .as its a pressure baring part of the gun .

I think what you have done is great .And ive often thought about adding a silencer to a simple cheap single shot as you have as its a cheap way into quieter gunning .

The thing with barrel porting is it doesnt really slow your shot down to any significant degree porting from say half way along the barrel will only reduce your shot velocity by about 5 % .So from say 1350 fps to 1285 fps .if your that worried about lost velocity get 2 yards closer to your quarry .

The other thing .subsonic carts are a waste of time /a fallacy .the noise for a shot gun comes from the explosion of hot gasses fromnthe barrel and there is very little actual noise from any sonic crack coming from the shot as it flies through the air .

A supersonic bullet 2500 fps ish ripps the air creating a long duration crack as it flies .and for most bullets stays supersonic all the way to the target .So say 200 +yds of crack .

The shot from a shot gun leaves the barrel leaves at 1350 ish and due to the terrible bc of the shot (No 5 ,-no8 )it becomes subsonic very quickly say about 15_ 20 yds from the muzzle .this means the shot hasent really had time to make a sonic wave that creates the crack .also the size of a single no6 shot is so small it doesnt really displace that much air . (Obviously at the muzzle )all the shot combined can make a sonic crack but it is so short lived that it's over before its begun .

So really all (Most) of the noise from a shot gun is from the gasses expanding .slow these down and contain and you can effecctively reduce the noise significantly .So porting the barrel bleeds off expanding gasses but doesnt reduce shot velocity much .

 

So to sell a subsonic cartridge is basically a rip off as any game cartridge doesnt really make a sonic crack anyway .

[Old farrier]

I'm thinking you're being innovative here

 

£40 will buy you good bakils and many other singles all day long

 

Go for it if you have to scrap a few along the line it's a learning curve

 

Getting it right first time and you're quids in

 

Best of luck with your hobby 😊

 

Of

[Ultrastu]

Oh yes as above .Not if your gonna always keep it or have it scrapped when u dont want it .

My mate has a mossy he chopped the barrel down on .he cant sell it .so he keeps it .

[Ultrastu]

So the above it why so many people report that their hushpower guns are just as quiet with a full fat cart as it is with a (supposedly ) subsonic one .

[Old farrier]

Subsonic isn't all about speed and noise it's about patterns and penetration and reducing recoil

 

Important in a light single barrel gun

 

But you knew that

 

All the best

Of

[Alpha Mule]

I have an ancient Baikal that I would love to have quitened down.

If you're looking for someone to test, let me know.

I'm a pants shot with a shottie, but my ears work fine.

[Ultrastu]

Thats right .a "subsonic " load will usually have reduced powder .giving a reduction in recoil and possibly a tighter pattern .And if the shot size goes up say to a no 4 or no5 the the penetration will be deeper .than a no6 (but thats the same for any cart) .bigger pellets penetrate further

[Guest cookoff013]

This is a great thread. Are there holes drilled in the barrel?

[Daveo26]

This IS a great thread and I'm getting exactly what's needed loads of good sound ideas.

cookoff013 are you asking me?

Not in my gun yet......

Until I can get some kind of reliable noise reading on what I've done so far I'm not changing anything.

I'm more than happy to add baffles and port the barrel but I need to know what affect its having .

 

So let me get this right subs are a waste of time? Seriously?

But they sound so much quieter.

[Daveo26]

I've watched the video. If a job is worth doing it's worth doing properly. Port the barrel and make some plates forward of the muzzle and you will have a good tool.

 

Any suggestions on port sizing?

I'm thinking 2mm ports 25.4mm apart