wymberley Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Whereas there's no such thing as bad publicity, 6153ian has a perfectly valid point so have moved here in attempt to answer Fortune's question raised at Private Gun Sales. Am I to understand that you believe this to be still valid?: https://image.ibb.co/mSxiCF/Eley_Diary.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) hello, i have used all those and the impax, and as i mention on sabels post we all had side by side, i used the alphamax in a greener gp, ok it would be interesting to see if there was a difference between the 1 and1/16 grand prix to todays 30g cartridges in 6 shot, then it was 30 yards in a 30inch circle with improved cylinder pattern plate, then you did give a good lead so i think todays faster burning powder might be another point for discussion, also i mention in the other post if side by sides did make a come back you could do no better than read ruffers 1st edition book Edited August 3, 2017 by oldypigeonpopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Surprisingly perhaps, but the old Eley HV 6 at 1120 ft/sec gave approximately the same velocity at 40 yards as a modern cartridge No 6 with a V1 figure of 1425. However, the point I'm trying to make to Fortune is that there has been a sea change in our understanding of pattern pellet distribution which has had an effect on maximum range. This has largely gone unnoticed as it's rare that things get pushed to the limits and not too many pattern their guns now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 hello, i have used all those and the impax, and as i mention on sabels post we all had side by side, i used the alphamax in a greener gp, ok it would be interesting to see if there was a difference between the 1 and1/16 grand prix to todays 30g cartridges in 6 shot, then it was 30 yards in a 30inch circle with improved cylinder pattern plate, then you did give a good lead so i think todays faster burning powder might be another point for discussion, also i mention in the other post if side by sides did make a come back you could do no better than read ruffers 1st edition book those were the days we called lead like a barn door Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 Ha ha that bird needed a five bar gate of lead. Still hear it today game shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 those were the days we called lead like a barn door I'm still cringing over the memory of the Alphamax and the GP. Mine had more pits than South wales at the time but used to drop the blue hares with ease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) i very rarely have the need to shoot at anything over 40 yds.......a lot of the problem now-a-days...is the inability of folk to judge ranges just try pacing out 40 good yds....yds i mean, its no good minceing 40 yds....then put a stick in the ground and walk back to your hide....then you will see what a goodly distance that is................ Edited August 4, 2017 by ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 i very rarely have the need to shoot at anything over 40 yds.......a lot of the problem now-a-days...is the inability of folk to judge ranges just try pacing out 40 good yds....yds i mean, its no good minceing 40 yds....then put a stick in the ground and walk back to your hide....then you will see what a goodly distance that is................ See it all the time when out with people you say "how far out was that?" " 75 yards" "erm no 35 yards" "Oh ok" "Now let's talk about that 1000 ft high pheasant you shot" Turns out it was 40 ft!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 i very rarely have the need to shoot at anything over 40 yds.......a lot of the problem now-a-days...is the inability of folk to judge ranges just try pacing out 40 good yds....yds i mean, its no good minceing 40 yds....then put a stick in the ground and walk back to your hide....then you will see what a goodly distance that is................ Exactly. When I do pattern/penetration tests I have a measure with tape range of 35yrds ... add another 5yrds to that and it is a long way. Then imagine lifting a pole that long above your head Hmmmmm!! I am very certain that in the main, so called high birds/good birds are no more than 30yrds away. Judging distance vertically is not easy out into slear sky. The poplars in my wood we have just been thinning have measured out at 80ft (27yrds) put pheasant 5yrds above that and you would be calling some good birds. Put one 13yrds, almost half the height of the trees again and you would judge them as superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 See it all the time when out with people you say "how far out was that?" " 75 yards" "erm no 35 yards" "Oh ok" "Now let's talk about that 1000 ft high pheasant you shot" Turns out it was 40 ft!!!! hello, your right WW and ditchman, lets just say a cock pheasant at 50 yards which is 150 ft to me would look the size of a partridge ? now equate that with a pigeon ? oh 50 yards is what i zero my 22 L/R on and i need binos to see the target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 i very rarely have the need to shoot at anything over 40 yds.......a lot of the problem now-a-days...is the inability of folk to judge ranges just try pacing out 40 good yds....yds i mean, its no good minceing 40 yds....then put a stick in the ground and walk back to your hide....then you will see what a goodly distance that is................ Spot on. I do have to confess that I like to have a 45 yard pattern ability, but this is to cater for any range judgement error on my part. Problem is though, that if people did what you say then we'd miss out on all the entertaining 'stories' of the 60 yard pigeon and 80 yard pheasant. See it all the time when out with people you say "how far out was that?" " 75 yards" "erm no 35 yards" "Oh ok" "Now let's talk about that 1000 ft high pheasant you shot" Turns out it was 40 ft!!!! You beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 [quote name="wymberley" post="3297031" timestamp="1501840525 You beat me to it. Did explain why he struggled on the 80ft high clay we didn't make it to the 120ft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) People can't judge distance at all. My friend who works for Churchills now, taught me to look at objects and judge then pace it.The amount of people who say they shoot Pigeon or whatever at 60+ yards is unbelievable.I think this is why we have a modern trend for stupidly big cartridges and tight chokes etc. Edited August 4, 2017 by dodeer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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