New Clear Pigeon

[rbrowning2]

Stonepark and Motty thanks for the posts, interesting that most game/pigeon cartridges and budget clay cartridges are loaded with soft (2 or 3% antimony) lead and competition more expensive clay cartridges are loaded with hard lead (5% antimony) which looks to be a contradiction to what you say gives the best killing powder.

 

Motty you are a keen support of cheap clay cartridges for pigeons or are you using expensive competition hard shot cartridges?

 

Obverously the cartridge is less important that the ability of the person behind the trigger to put the pattern how ever good or bad that is on top of the quarry.

 

The Barbican please open one of the new clear pigeon cartridges up and post some pictures I am sure some us would like to see what improvements they have made, thanks.

Edited August 11, 2017 by rbrowning2

[ElvisThePelvis]

fair enough.....

Day two of testing, no pattenjng as that's been done but shot 20 old CP, 20 new Cp and 10 dark storm (30g 6 which is English 5 unlike the cp which are both 32g 6)

 

31 birds killed and 29 picked, I have 5 birds that were not dead in the air, 4 were with old black cp, one was with dark stir, as it wasn't the best shot (low going away - like grouse behind - my nemesis)

 

All birds shot with new cp (16) were dead in air.

 

Maybe not the most scientific test, but I'm convinced that new cp are much better.

 

Again gun was a franchi affinity with M Briley extended choke.

[motty]

Stonepark and Motty thanks for the posts, interesting that most game/pigeon cartridges and budget clay cartridges are loaded with soft (2 or 3% antimony) lead and competition more expensive clay cartridges are loaded with hard lead (5% antimony) which looks to be a contradiction to what you say gives the best killing powder.

 

Motty you are a keen support of cheap clay cartridges for pigeons or are you using expensive competition hard shot cartridges?

 

Obverously the cartridge is less important that the ability of the person behind the trigger to put the pattern how ever good or bad that is on top of the quarry.

 

The Barbican please open one of the new clear pigeon cartridges up and post some pictures I am sure some us would like to see what improvements they have made, thanks.

I use the cheapest cartridges for my pigeon shooting. I am unsure of the antimony content, but I doubt there is that much difference in hardness between the cheapest and the more expensive ones.

I have been paying £160 a thousand for the Jockers I have been recently using. I would not pay £260 a thousand for Clear Pigeon.

[motty]

Day two of testing, no pattenjng as that's been done but shot 20 old CP, 20 new Cp and 10 dark storm (30g 6 which is English 5 unlike the cp which are both 32g 6)

 

31 birds killed and 29 picked, I have 5 birds that were not dead in the air, 4 were with old black cp, one was with dark stir, as it wasn't the best shot (low going away - like grouse behind - my nemesis)

 

All birds shot with new cp (16) were dead in air.

 

Maybe not the most scientific test, but I'm convinced that new cp are much better.

 

Again gun was a franchi affinity with M Briley extended choke.

Shot placement is the real deciding factor for clean kills or not. I think which cartridge is used, is of secondary importance.

[Zapp]

Shot placement is the real deciding factor for clean kills or not. I think which cartridge is used, is of secondary importance.

 

I agree. There arent many shooters (IMHO) whose shooting is so consistent that a small change in velocity or metal content is the major deciding factor in making a clean kill.

[ElvisThePelvis]

I agree. There arent many shooters (IMHO) whose shooting is so consistent that a small change in velocity or metal content is the major deciding factor in making a clean kill.

I agree normally but my recent testing proves my gut reaction that old (black cased) clear pigeon were dog****, which coincidentally is a widely held opinion..

[6.5x55SE]

I agree normally but my recent testing proves my gut reaction that old (black cased) clear pigeon were dog****, which coincidentally is a widely held opinion..

Shooting a gun I'd not shot since mid January 2 boxes ( 50 Black case 32grm clear pigeon 6 shot) at pigeons flying over sugar Beet to standing crops resulted in 46 Pigeon for those 50 cartridges does not agree to your theory either 😆

[Stonepark]

For lead brinell hardness, antimony content and max chamber psi before shot damage, the table I have (and is a rough guide not perfect) is as follows: -

 

Sb % BH Max PSI

0 4 5000

0.25 5 5800

1 7 9000

2 8 10250

3 9.1 11600

4 10.1 12900

5 11 14130

6 11.8 15050

 

 

For the older game low pressure loads, 2% to 3% antimony gave adequate hardness to avoid significant deformation, however with modern high pressure game loads (which in reality are 2 3/4 magnum loads for pressure), you really need at least 4% if not 5% antimony to minimize shot deformation on firing.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Stonepark

[ElvisThePelvis]

Shooting a gun I'd not shot since mid January 2 boxes ( 50 Black case 32grm clear pigeon 6 shot) at pigeons flying over sugar Beet to standing crops resulted in 46 Pigeon for those 50 cartridges does not agree to your theory either

They obviously suit your gun, they don't mine..