Help needed 22lr shooting

[Ultrastu]

Well having thought about this idea of bullet / pellet fragments exiting an impact site at a higher velocity than the original whole projectile velocity .

I think that it's not only possible but actually probable .

Let me break it down .

Say a .22 pellet hits an object at 500 fps for 10 fpe .the energy the pellet contains as a whole is now converted into .heat .sound .deflection of the object and deformation and deflection of the pellet .

If the pellet remains whole then the small percentage of that energy returned to the pellet in the form of deflection will be much lower than the original impact speed .ok .

Now then imagine (Not hard to do ) a 1 grn fragment of lead from the pellet flying off at an angle .acute if you will its much lighter than the origional 16 grn .22 pellet and as such doesnt need a massive amount of energy put into it to exceed 500 fps .

Is there enough deflection energy remaining after the impact to get this fragment up to above 500 fps .will that depends on the nature of the material of the object .

I would suggest a golf ball be be one such object .whether it would fragment said pellet is another question .

But id definately say its possible .

[TIGHTCHOKE]

The energy in a 1 grn piece of the original projectile will not have all the energy of the original projectile, it can only have 1 1/6th of the original energy.

 

 

It cannot accelerate.

[Ultrastu]

It would only require 0.5 fpe of energy transfered into a 1 grn fragment to have it travel at 500 fps .obviously this light weight wierd shaped projectile isnt going to retain that velocity very far but its certainly possible that it can exceed the origional impact velocity .

 

One easy to remember example from your childhood .at the beach your dad said down throw those large rocks on the pebble beach cos if they smash a fragment can shatter off and hit you in the eye or leg (or your small brother ) in my case .and its true we have all heard the smashed bits go zinging off much faster than the large rock was thrown .

Large amount of slow energy .small percentage converted and induced into a light weight fragment accelerating it above origional speed .

 

Possible .

The energy in a 1 grn piece of the original projectile will not have all the energy of the original projectile, it can only have 1 1/6th of the original energy.

 

 

It cannot accelerate.

Wrong

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Where is the extra energy coming from?

[Ultrastu]

There is no extra energy

There has been a conversion of energy into different forms and some parts of this now fragmented projectile revive more than others .think of it like a mini explosion .

There is at impact say 10 fpe of energy to be dished out some will go into heat some into sound some into deformation and some into new kinetic energy transfered into these fragments not all of which are equal or best positioned to take best use of converting it into velocity .

But some frags are and they accelerate away from the impact point and the release of this energy (like an explosion )

[Ultrastu]

You have to ignore the idea of energy conversion as being equal and linear it isn't .

Conservation of energy yes .but equal no .

[TIGHTCHOKE]

And you seem to have ignored the subject being discussed is "whether a ricochet can accelerate?"

 

A single projectile, fired from a barrelled weapon, striking something, losing energy and deviating from its original path, no extra energy, so no extra speed.

 

Hence a ricochet can not accelerate.

Edited August 27, 2017 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Cantrem ember]

ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THAT A RICOCHETING OBJECT, IN THIS CASE A RICOCHETING ROUND CAN ACCELERATE AFTER MAKING CONTACT WITH AN OBJECT IS WELL AND TRULY A MASSIVE

[Bazooka Joe]

Golf balls, 177", Rocks, Pebbles, needs to be back on topic, IE; 22 Bullet.

 

Just out of interest, what would the BC be of these fragmented projectiles.?

[Ultrastu]

And you seem to have ignored the subject being discussed is "whether a ricochet can accelerate?"

 

A single projectile, fired from a barrelled weapon, striking something, losing energy and deviating from its original path, no extra energy, so no extra speed.

 

Hence a ricochet can not accelerate.

No I didn't . A whole projectile ricocheting cannot exit or accelerate faster than the impact speed .

I think I agreed to this statement about 3 times .

A fragment can .I think i stated that about 3 times to.

Where is the confusion .?

Oh in people who can't read i guess

Golf balls, 177", Rocks, Pebbles, needs to be back on topic, IE; 22 Bullet.

 

Just out of interest, what would the BC be of these fragmented projectiles.?

Extremely low and of little significance unless you catch it in the eye

ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THAT A RICOCHETING OBJECT, IN THIS CASE A RICOCHETING ROUND CAN ACCELERATE AFTER MAKING CONTACT WITH AN OBJECT IS WELL AND TRULY A MASSIVE

That's mature and helpful

[Ultrastu]

If any more evidence is required to convince u .

Go on utube and look at slow motion bullet impacts .

Some of the smaller fragments accelerate away from the impact point at almost twice the speed of the origional bullet .

 

FRAGMENTS .

This is the point that COOTER was ridiculed for after he amended his first statement about whole ricochets .

THIS isn't my opinion its just a simple fact that u can see for your self .

 

End .

[neutron619]

Five pages and still no-one's talking about conservation of momentum.

 

I'm just saying.

[wymberley]

It's all enough to make you want to join the FES.

[Ultrastu]

The what ?

Isnt that a hat ?

[wymberley]

The what ?

Isnt that a hat ?

Like some of the other posts here, that's not quite right.

[walshie]

No-one mentioned the coriolis effect either.

[Mr.C]

Who's round is it anyway?