.243 or 6.5x55 for occasional deer

[lancer425]

 

 

He want OCCASIONAL ROE, not Moose or any other deer. Poachers commonly use .22lr and subs on Roe and they work!!!!!!

 

A .222 or .223 is more than capable on Roe, why on earth does he want a 6.5?

 

If he was after Moose I may agree and suggest 6.5, he doesn't, nor does he want any other deer, he wants OCCASIONAL ROE!

 

Frankly, if it was not for the Law I would say stick with the .222.

 

.243

 

 

 

 

Why on earth? it is not a problem either calibre the .243 or 6.5 both will do the job and i just dont see why the 6.5 could be considered over kill for roe.

The 6.5x55 is a sweet shooting round in any rifle accurate and has a far more broader range of quarry types in its spectrum of use than the .243 that is of course should the need arise in the case of the OP. but i am sure if his circumstances changed he would be glad of the extra the 6.5 could bring to the arena, something the .243 is simply not capable of doing.

The 6.5 in this case would look a lot more economical and at no compromise to its occasional Roe performance, anything a .243 can do a 6.5 can do where roe or any other deer are concerned. now looking at it from the other angle the .243 does not look so rosey, but as roe are the only consideration from the OP its probably best left that both are capable, i dont acept the lower .243 rifle price either 6.5s are not super rare or super expensive second hand and any ammo prices negligible and reloading ammo little if anything in it worth worrying about. the 6.5 has the high ground here without a doubt the way i see it, and gives up nothing to the .243 in the context of the OP.

[Dekers]

Dekers, on 22 Sept 2017 - 6:05 PM

 

He want OCCASIONAL ROE, not Moose or any other deer. Poachers commonly use .22lr and subs on Roe and they work!!!!!!

 

A .222 or .223 is more than capable on Roe, why on earth does he want a 6.5?

 

If he was after Moose I may agree and suggest 6.5, he doesn't, nor does he want any other deer, he wants OCCASIONAL ROE!

 

Frankly, if it was not for the Law I would say stick with the .222.

 

.243

 

Why on earth? it is not a problem either calibre the .243 or 6.5 both will do the job and i just dont see why the 6.5 could be considered over kill for roe.

The 6.5x55 is a sweet shooting round in any rifle accurate and has a far more broader range of quarry types in its spectrum of use than the .243 that is of course should the need arise in the case of the OP. but i am sure if his circumstances changed he would be glad of the extra the 6.5 could bring to the arena, something the .243 is simply not capable of doing.

The 6.5 in this case would look a lot more economical and at no compromise to its occasional Roe performance, anything a .243 can do a 6.5 can do where roe or any other deer are concerned. now looking at it from the other angle the .243 does not look so rosey, but as roe are the only consideration from the OP its probably best left that both are capable, i dont acept the lower .243 rifle price either 6.5s are not super rare or super expensive second hand and any ammo prices negligible and reloading ammo little if anything in it worth worrying about. the 6.5 has the high ground here without a doubt the way i see it, and gives up nothing to the .243 in the context of the OP.

 

"i just dont see why the 6.5 could be considered over kill for roe"

 

Because .243 is Overkill on Roe, so the 6.5 is even more Overkill!

 

You seem to have extracted the red bit somewhat out of context or simply misunderstood, the 6.5 tends to be a bit more powerful than the .243, my comment was suggesting that .22LR, .222 and .223 were more than capable of stopping a Roe, so why does he need the extra a 6.5 can give when a .243 is WAY MORE than enough for Occasional Roe?

 

"anything a .243 can do a 6.5 can do where roe or any other deer are concerned"

 

So can a .308 or a 260 etc etc, but he wants Occasional Roe, so why does he need a 6.5? Frankly, in my experience the .243 is overkill for a Roe, but such is life and such is the Law! The .243 is FAR more versatile, as I said in an earlier post, Colin could potentially get rid of the .222 and .204 and do everything with the .243, the light V-Max .243 is arguably the best long range fox calibre/ammo available. You can't do the same with a 6.5.

 

"now looking at it from the other angle the .243 does not look so rosey"

 

What other angle, why doesn't the .243 look so rosey, I and many people have no issue stopping the biggest deer in this country with a .243, in truth I only bought my .308 for Boar and target. To the best of my recollection I have only ever shot one deer with it, and that was whilst out for other quarry, and it turned up!

 

Personally, I have not raised any cost issues, cost does NOT come into shooting, if you can't afford it you don't shoot, you do not chose one calibre over another because its cheaper, you choose the best for the job, or comply with the Law!

[lancer425]

 

"i just dont see why the 6.5 could be considered over kill for roe"

 

Because .243 is Overkill on Roe, so the 6.5 is even more Overkill!

 

You seem to have extracted the red bit somewhat out of context or simply misunderstood, the 6.5 tends to be a bit more powerful than the .243, my comment was suggesting that .22LR, .222 and .223 were more than capable of stopping a Roe, so why does he need the extra a 6.5 can give when a .243 is WAY MORE than enough for Occasional Roe?

 

"anything a .243 can do a 6.5 can do where roe or any other deer are concerned"

 

So can a .308 or a 260 etc etc, but he wants Occasional Roe, so why does he need a 6.5? Frankly, in my experience the .243 is overkill for a Roe, but such is life and such is the Law! The .243 is FAR more versatile, as I said in an earlier post, Colin could potentially get rid of the .222 and .204 and do everything with the .243, the light V-Max .243 is arguably the best long range fox calibre/ammo available. You can't do the same with a 6.5.

 

"now looking at it from the other angle the .243 does not look so rosey"

 

What other angle, why doesn't the .243 look so rosey, I and many people have no issue stopping the biggest deer in this country with a .243, in truth I only bought my .308 for Boar and target. To the best of my recollection I have only ever shot one deer with it, and that was whilst out for other quarry, and it turned up!

 

Personally, I have not raised any cost issues, cost does NOT come into shooting, if you can't afford it you don't shoot, you do not chose one calibre over another because its cheaper, you choose the best for the job, or comply with the Law!

As i said in my opening statement either of them will do the job, i do not see how a 6.5 os overkill for Roe. You clearly think it is and say so. We do not agree, these things happen.

[Dekers]

As i said in my opening statement either of them will do the job, i do not see how a 6.5 os overkill for Roe. You clearly think it is and say so. We do not agree, these things happen.

 

:hmm:

 

It's a Roe, its the size of a large dog!

 

If the Law state a .243 is suitable for a Red, does it not occur to you it is more than suitable for a Roe? A Roe weighs up to about 35kg (a big one), and a Red up to as much as 200kg (some say bigger but I've not quite hit the 200kg mark yet), if a .243 is suitable for a Red then does it not seem more than suitable/overkill for a Roe, which part of that don't you see?

 

On top of which I have shot numerous Roe with a .223 and more with a .243, simply because the Law says I have to, experience shows me .223 is plenty, so 6.5 is overkill!

 

How much deer experience have you got? Have you ever shot a Roe with a .22 Centrefire and noticed how they fall down, just why does anyone need a 6.5 for Occasional Roe? If you don't consider 6.5 Overkill for Roe, then what exactly do you advocate using on Red?

 

.22 centrefire work for Roe in Scotland, how many Scots have you heard complaining it isn't up to the job, so just why do we need to use a .243 (.240 upwards) in England/Wales?

 

Colin can shoot, he doesn't need a cannon to knock down a fly, frankly nobody who can shoot half straight needs a .243, let alone a 6.5 for Roe, but that's the Law!

 

That's why I rate 6.5 Overkill for Roe, as I also rate .243 Overkill for Roe!

 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Dekers

[Walker570]

Shop around and get something different but head and shoulders above a 243Win, that is the 257 Roberts. I have owned two and to my mind the cartridge is the best of all worlds for UK game, foxes to red deer. A joy to shoot as is it's parent cartridge the 7x57. Shoots 120gr bullets very accurately and lets be fair a 120grainer is going to adequately deal with any fox and any red deer put in the right place so why all the mumbling about choice of projectiles, just shoot the one.

 

I believe you can only actually kill something, you can't 'overkill' it. I have shot roe with my 8x57JRS double and the animal fell over just the same and the wound channel was not dissimilar to that with my 7 - 30 Waters which is my personal choice for roe and munties, shooting Barnes TTSX. Basically there ain't a lot of difference in the end result.

 

The reason I initially suggest the 6.5x55 was that I have had colleagues buy a 243Win on advice and then had the opportunity to visit the Continent to shoot wild boar and find the calibre not accepted. The 6.5x55 is a perfect all round shooter and you could also include the 270 Win, 308Win, 7x57, 8x57, etc etc in competent hands they will all do the same job.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Walker570

[lancer425]

Call it what you will a kill is a kill over kill is still a kill under kill is a wound , i will go with overkill but as i said i desagree it is period , however not everyone agrees on this. and as i said it happens. There is a lot of over killing going on around the world by the sounds of it. :lol:

[colin lad]

Where the 243 wins is you can use 55grn bullets for foxing and then heavier ones on deer,

Or just a decent soft point on everything..... mine I use 85grn soft points and everything foxes to fallow seem to fall over. Summer I'll occasionally swap to lighter bullets but it's hardly necessary.

If you do go for one Colin and want a selection to test for re loading I've got a fair few different options!

thanks mate that sounds like a good idea and generous offer

[colin lad]

 

"i just dont see why the 6.5 could be considered over kill for roe"

 

Because .243 is Overkill on Roe, so the 6.5 is even more Overkill!

 

You seem to have extracted the red bit somewhat out of context or simply misunderstood, the 6.5 tends to be a bit more powerful than the .243, my comment was suggesting that .22LR, .222 and .223 were more than capable of stopping a Roe, so why does he need the extra a 6.5 can give when a .243 is WAY MORE than enough for Occasional Roe?

 

"anything a .243 can do a 6.5 can do where roe or any other deer are concerned"

 

So can a .308 or a 260 etc etc, but he wants Occasional Roe, so why does he need a 6.5? Frankly, in my experience the .243 is overkill for a Roe, but such is life and such is the Law! The .243 is FAR more versatile, as I said in an earlier post, Colin could potentially get rid of the .222 and .204 and do everything with the .243, the light V-Max .243 is arguably the best long range fox calibre/ammo available. You can't do the same with a 6.5.

 

"now looking at it from the other angle the .243 does not look so rosey"

 

What other angle, why doesn't the .243 look so rosey, I and many people have no issue stopping the biggest deer in this country with a .243, in truth I only bought my .308 for Boar and target. To the best of my recollection I have only ever shot one deer with it, and that was whilst out for other quarry, and it turned up!

 

Personally, I have not raised any cost issues, cost does NOT come into shooting, if you can't afford it you don't shoot, you do not chose one calibre over another because its cheaper, you choose the best for the job, or comply with the Law!

only reason i mention cost is that simply we are getting a few roe on our land and we want them controlled if i could use my 222 i would but legally can't so need to get rifle i can use dont really want another rifle i am happy with what i have but i don't control roe numbers they would get someone else in who will so hence just want a cheap rifle that is cheapish to run would rather be spending my spare cash on holidays away etc

i you know what i mean

it's just a shame that when you have been shooting a while and get your ticket opened up meaning the feo trust your judgement of a safe shot etc that they can't let you use your judgement of what calibre is suitable for the job as the local cwd drop fine with my triple and a roe ain't much bigger than a good size cwd buck,

 

colin

[al4x]

thanks mate that sounds like a good idea and generous offer

If you want to try the caliber as well before you get one just let me know. I can guarantee it works well on Roe, you're lucky they are moving in as they are almost the perfect deer, more meat than cwd or muntjac but still easy to deal with and not too heavy!

[Dekers]

only reason i mention cost is that simply we are getting a few roe on our land and we want them controlled if i could use my 222 i would but legally can't so need to get rifle i can use dont really want another rifle i am happy with what i have but i don't control roe numbers they would get someone else in who will so hence just want a cheap rifle that is cheapish to run would rather be spending my spare cash on holidays away etc

i you know what i mean

it's just a shame that when you have been shooting a while and get your ticket opened up meaning the feo trust your judgement of a safe shot etc that they can't let you use your judgement of what calibre is suitable for the job as the local cwd drop fine with my triple and a roe ain't much bigger than a good size cwd buck,

 

colin

 

Cost as such doesn't really seem to come into this Colin, potentially I see .243 options may be slightly cheaper overall, but the fact is the .243 is more than capable on Roe, so simply no need to spend more, not a matter of cutting corners, just no need to spend extra. As you are aware with your deer/.222 experiences!

 

Unfortunately the Law in England/Wales states .243 (actually .240) so there isn't a choice. Strange how all the Scottish Roe fall down just fine with the .22 centrefires. There are very few things in the UK other than Deer that have legislation revolving around them about calibre/energy. I believe Seal and Badger may still have some legislation, but that's about it as far as I recall.

 

AOLQ or ALQ are very useful and sensible conditions!

[Dekers]

Shop around and get something different but head and shoulders above a 243Win, that is the 257 Roberts. I have owned two and to my mind the cartridge is the best of all worlds for UK game, foxes to red deer. A joy to shoot as is it's parent cartridge the 7x57. Shoots 120gr bullets very accurately and lets be fair a 120grainer is going to adequately deal with any fox and any red deer put in the right place so why all the mumbling about choice of projectiles, just shoot the one.

 

I believe you can only actually kill something, you can't 'overkill' it. I have shot roe with my 8x57JRS double and the animal fell over just the same and the wound channel was not dissimilar to that with my 7 - 30 Waters which is my personal choice for roe and munties, shooting Barnes TTSX. Basically there ain't a lot of difference in the end result.

 

The reason I initially suggest the 6.5x55 was that I have had colleagues buy a 243Win on advice and then had the opportunity to visit the Continent to shoot wild boar and find the calibre not accepted. The 6.5x55 is a perfect all round shooter and you could also include the 270 Win, 308Win, 7x57, 8x57, etc etc in competent hands they will all do the same job.

 

 

I wouldn't use a .243 on Boar either, that's why I got a .308 as well as my .243.

 

Wild Boar are not Occasional Roe!

 

[Dekers]

If you want to try the caliber as well before you get one just let me know. I can guarantee it works well on Roe, you're lucky they are moving in as they are almost the perfect deer, more meat than cwd or muntjac but still easy to deal with and not too heavy!

 

Plenty of Muntjac and masses or Roe round my way but the CWD has still not made it to these parts. Having eaten all 5 of the other deer I have to say Muntjac is my personal favourite with Roe second, which is rather useful as that's what we have most of here. Never shot or eaten a CWD, actually never seen one in the wild, so that may change if I ever get to try one!

 

Do I take it you still have no, or very few Roe, your way al4x?

Edited September 24, 2017 by Dekers

[Walker570]

quote...........muntjac is my favourite with roe second .....

 

Way to go, we have found something we agree on.

 

Going back to basics then your choice of a second rifle (308Win) is really what would fit the bill 100%. I have shot hundreds of deer with a 308Win and for some of that time I experimented on the performance of 125gr Winchester cartridges on fallow as we used that round in our Parker Hale sniper rifles. Shot a lot of fallow back then and never had a runner. If my FLO turned up and said the rules have changed you can only have one calibre, it would be a toss up between the 308Win, 7x57 or 6,5 X 55.

 

Having sat and discussed, no, out and out argued about the best calibre for this and that, for over 40yrs, this thread could go on and on :-)

[Dekers]

quote...........muntjac is my favourite with roe second .....

 

Way to go, we have found something we agree on.

 

Going back to basics then your choice of a second rifle (308Win) is really what would fit the bill 100%. I have shot hundreds of deer with a 308Win and for some of that time I experimented on the performance of 125gr Winchester cartridges on fallow as we used that round in our Parker Hale sniper rifles. Shot a lot of fallow back then and never had a runner. If my FLO turned up and said the rules have changed you can only have one calibre, it would be a toss up between the 308Win, 7x57 or 6,5 X 55.

 

Having sat and discussed, no, out and out argued about the best calibre for this and that, for over 40yrs, this thread could go on and on :-)

 

You are right, this could go on forever, are you now actually suggesting the .308 is really what would fit the bill 100% for Occasional Roe???

 

...and it isn't my second rifle, I have quite a few (and shotguns and pistols) so I can take out the ones most suitable for any job!

 

I'm just off to deal with foxes at a school in outer London and I'm taking my HMR and WMR, because they will do the job for me on this site.

[lancer425]

I dont get your reasoning on this subject, Like what is wrong with .308 as a roe rifle ? Why not if its down for that where is it failing so badly?

Whats with all this minimalist stuff on these boards. Nothing wrong with .308 at all its roe capable i do not understand this minimum stuff.

Back on topic the 6.5 which i do not and never have had on my licence so you can not throw the i am pushing what i own mantle on m,, the 6.5 is an incredible round as pointed out by me and others on yhis thread many times it has a broader range of uses than the .243. And roe very much are on the menu with a 6.5 and with zero negative considerations.

[6.5x55SE]

You are right, this could go on forever, are you now actually suggesting the .308 is really what would fit the bill 100% for Occasional Roe???

 

...and it isn't my second rifle, I have quite a few (and shotguns and pistols) so I can take out the ones most suitable for any job!

 

I'm just off to deal with foxes at a school in outer London and I'm taking my HMR and WMR, because they will do the job for me on this site.

Both over kill in that environment a FAC Air Rifle is plenty capable and safer.

As you are so experienced.

.243 100gr Projectile clean broadside lower rib shot ( heart ) say 150yrd on Roe same type of shot on Roe but with a .300 Win-Mag 200gr Projectile which calibre would/will give a cleaner usable carcass 🤔

[Walker570]

Both over kill in that environment a FAC Air Rifle is plenty capable and safer.

As you are so experienced.

.243 100gr Projectile clean broadside lower rib shot ( heart ) say 150yrd on Roe same type of shot on Roe but with a .300 Win-Mag 200gr Projectile which calibre would/will give a cleaner usable carcass

Interesting question and I know where your coming from as I have shot roe with my 375JDJ ..Barnes TTSX and meat damage was minimal and surprise surprise it died exactly the same as with my 257 Wildcat etc etc. The question was ..243 Win or 6.5x55 ... ok he goes out and buys the 243Win, then has a chance of shooting a wild boar... does he then have to go out and buy another rifle. Seems common sense to me to buy a calibre which covers all bases.

[lancer425]

Both over kill in that environment a FAC Air Rifle is plenty capable and safer.

As you are so experienced.

.243 100gr Projectile clean broadside lower rib shot ( heart ) say 150yrd on Roe same type of shot on Roe but with a .300 Win-Mag 200gr Projectile which calibre would/will give a cleaner usable carcass

I go the 300 win mag with 200 grain it will be 300o max probably closer to 2750 dependent on load with constructed bullet i have seen 180 TSX in action on Roe exits were neat. .243 looses in theory but having said that every shot is different and the 300 would need a constructed bullet if i were picking a bullet TSX 180s in the 300 win mag.

[Christian Sutton]

You haven't changed one single bit have you Deker`s... Even after all these years you still write a load of twaddle when it come`s to choice of calibre`s where Deer Management is concerned..

The 243 is an excellent Fox round which is also adequate for the smaller deer species here in the UK.

However the 6.5 in its various forms is an ideal calibre for all Deer Management.

Whether your a recreational stalker out just a few times a year or even if your working on a semi professional basis like some..

[colin lad]

 

Plenty of Muntjac and masses or Roe round my way but the CWD has still not made it to these parts. Having eaten all 5 of the other deer I have to say Muntjac is my personal favourite with Roe second, which is rather useful as that's what we have most of here. Never shot or eaten a CWD, actually never seen one in the wild, so that may change if I ever get to try one!

 

Do I take it you still have no, or very few Roe, your way al4x?

for me cwd is favourite, i have butchered and eaten plenty muntjac but only ever one Roe that was brought to a butchery demo i did for pigeon watch and from what i saw of that one it was a bit scanky as they say where as cwd have plenty of fat on them certainly the ones round this way do,

and to make things better i went out foxing last night on a relatively new perm and saw somewhere in the region of 45-50 cwd over 7 fields and to make things better i have been ask to deal with them, roll on the 1st nov

 

colin

Edited September 24, 2017 by colin lad

[6.5x55SE]

I go the 300 win mag with 200 grain it will be 300o max probably closer to 2750 dependent on load with constructed bullet i have seen 180 TSX in action on Roe exits were neat. .243 looses in theory but having said that every shot is different and the 300 would need a constructed bullet if i were picking a bullet TSX 180s in the 300 win mag.

Correct Sir 👍 i used 200gr or 185gr Lapua Mega in my .300 Win-Mag Muntjac CWD Roe rib shot far far clean than 80gr to 100gr from a .243.

 

Walker570

I use a 6.5x55SE with Barnes LRX 127gr or Barnes TTSX 120gr on all six species of Deer again far less damage than a .243.

For Fox varmint shooting and Park Culling ( all have to be head shot) i use 80gr varmint Projectile 👍

[team tractor]

for me cwd is favourite, i have butchered and eaten plenty muntjac but only ever one Roe that was brought to a butchery demo i did for pigeon watch and from what i saw of that one it was a bit scanky as they say where as cwd have plenty of fat on them certainly the ones round this way do,

and to make things better i went out foxing last night on a relatively new perm and saw somewhere in the region of 45-50 cwd over 7 fields and to make things better i have been ask to deal with them, roll on the 1st nov

 

colin

You jammy ***.

 

I've had 3 munty off my shoot but have seen about 8 in 6 years.

In the midlands we have hardly anything around by us. I've I drive 20 miles in each direction we have fallow and that's your lot.

The farmer spotted a fallow recently on my permission. I've cameras set up around the place now to find them.

 

Your a lucky man.

 

Oh and hs2 has taken have my shooting too.

 

 

Funniest thing is that I know lots of shooters that don't even realise they have them.

Edited September 24, 2017 by team tractor

[colin lad]

You jammy ***.

 

I've had 3 munty off my shoot but have seen about 8 in 6 years.

In the midlands we have hardly anything around by us. I've I drive 20 miles in each direction we have fallow and that's your lot.

The farmer spotted a fallow recently on my permission. I've cameras set up around the place now to find them.

 

Your a lucky man.

 

Oh and hs2 has taken have my shooting too.

 

 

Funniest thing is that I know lots of shooters that don't even realise they have them.

lol you know soon as 1st nov comes they will vanish not to be seen again, that farm i took you too had a look there other night and one field had 13 cwd in it, they just seem to know when they can be shot and go into hiding

 

colin

[team tractor]

lol you know soon as 1st nov comes they will vanish not to be seen again, that farm i took you too had a look there other night and one field had 13 cwd in it, they just seem to know when they can be shot and go into hiding

 

colin

I remember that night we went. I'd never seen a cwd until then and at least 10 inc munty .

Your a lucky man. In the lamp around here you've badger and I recon I've seen 5 munty ever at night but mostly with young.

 

Wish you all the best this season.

[colin lad]

I remember that night we went. I'd never seen a cwd until then and at least 10 inc munty .

Your a lucky man. In the lamp around here you've badger and I recon I've seen 5 munty ever at night but mostly with young.

Wish you all the best this season.

Cheers bud