blankfirer Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 What i dont get is more people in the country than ever so more money every week for the hmrc or least thats what i thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clakk Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Still paying for 12 years of Our Tone n his boys.Remember all those race awareness courses and gender awareness courses ,and twenty million road signs everywhere confusing the heck out of every one at junctions .Well its time to pay for them and the outstanding interest on the borrowing . Those speed cameras and all the new baby payments and tax credits were borrowed and then he taxed your pensions too and sold all your gold to India for pennies, and now its payback time and no one is liking the medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Read something at the weekend mirror or sun? Saying bae is in this position because tone and his boys didn't back British when ordering new planes, went with his pals in America, so by doing this the customers bae need have doubts despite us making fantastic planes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Tightchoke...T1A,s sprayed grey eh? well that should save us - bullet bait. Cannot understand why we should not buy American planes as the F15 and 16 are far more advanced than anything we can afford to develop and cheap, from memory no F15 has ever been lost in Air to Air combat and the plane has been used heavily since the late 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromwell7 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Dont think many, if any British planes have been lost in air to air combat since then either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Tightchoke...T1A,s sprayed grey eh? well that should save us - bullet bait. Cannot understand why we should not buy American planes as the F15 and 16 are far more advanced than anything we can afford to develop and cheap, from memory no F15 has ever been lost in Air to Air combat and the plane has been used heavily since the late 70's. Would you rather the pilot flew a bright red one in combat, should we ever have to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) Colour has little ,or no, difference to an Aircrafts vulnerability in Air to Air combat as most takes place "beyond visual range" - the Hawk is simply not capable of being much use as anything other than a trainer - would you take on an F15 in one? As for the British not losing any AC in A to A combat - we have not been in as many conflicts as the good old US of A and we have not had much in the way of Fighters for a long time, or since the powers that be decided that Multi Role AC would be cheaper....I mean more useful . Edited October 18, 2017 by bruno22rf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Arming the Hawks, would be a matter of last resort, much as there was a plan to put bomb racks on Tiger Moth's if the Germans had invaded in WW2. Nobody is saying that the Hawk is a frontline fighter aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 We shouldn't buy American because we make Eurofighter Typhoon, one of the most advanced planes out there, think about all the brexit talk and yet here we are not even buying our own product which we are trying to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Colour has little ,or no, difference to an Aircrafts vulnerability in Air to Air combat as most takes place "beyond visual range" - the Hawk is simply not capable of being much use as anything other than a trainer - would you take on an F15 in one? As for the British not losing any AC in A to A combat - we have not been in as many conflicts as the good old US of A and we have not had much in the way of Fighters for a long time, or since the powers that be decided that Multi Role AC would be cheaper....I mean more useful . No it does not! A pilot must visually identify his target, you are talking rubbish. The plan to use Hawks for Local Air Defence is well established and when we had more money available they were used inside the outer ring of Tornado F3s during exercises. When the American Navy had the F14 with its Phoenix AAMs they were capable of going well over 100 miles but were only fired when the target was identified. Previously the USAF F4 had the Tiseo built in to a wing leading edge, gave wonderful clarity over range, but they only used the shorter range Sparrow after proper visual identification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) Funnily enough I was watching this a couple of weeks ago and it mentions the performance of F3 Tornados flying in pairs with Hawks against F14's (Aircrew Interviews is worth a look as a Youtube channel if you are interested in planes, particularly RAF): Edited October 18, 2017 by TriBsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondoggy Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Personally cant stand the Red Arrows, complete waste of money in my opinion - but it would be a different matter if the Aircraft they used was a decent fighter that could be "Combat ready" with a few minor alterations - much like the American display teams. It can, I used to work on Hawk at BAe Systems in Brough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 The Hawk T1 wouldn't last five minutes against any air to air fighter and would be pointless strapping Aim 9L to it as they are old and poor performing. Secondly you would have to avoid radar plus the fighters air to air radar and push to the merge to shoot another aircraft down. Pointless against anything Russian or Chinese and would be shot by any half decent semi active or active missile outside the engagement zone. Bruno22 is right in that we do most of our training at BVR and keep the enemy as far as possible, we don't need to get visual ID anymore as we have Fighter Controllers or 5th gen fighters identifying enemy aircraft well outside missile ranges. A hawk in any modern day war would be shot out of the sky before it even had the wheels up. They have no radar let alone an air to air radar and a really **** air to air integration system. If we run out of F35 and typhoon and for that matter GR4 then you may as well give up as painting our display team grey and using out of service missiles is the least of your worries. On another note the Reds are awesome. They do more for recruitment into the RAF than any other airframe and the overseas and government work they do is exceptional. The formation skills are the best in the world and those skills are then carried on in their careers once they return to frontline units or back into the training system as instructors. Plus it's nice to give something back to the public after all the tax payers money that gets spent on the RAF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Tightchoke - you need to contact the worlds Air Forces and advise them that their IFF units are defunct as Binoculars are going to become standard issue. Oh, and let the Missile makers know that medium and long range missiles will no longer be needed as all AC must be visually identified. Rubbish indeed. Last comment as I have no interest in arguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Visual is a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Nope, no need. I do it as a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Still paying for 12 years of Our Tone n his boys.Remember all those race awareness courses and gender awareness courses ,and twenty million road signs everywhere confusing the heck out of every one at junctions .Well its time to pay for them and the outstanding interest on the borrowing . Those speed cameras and all the new baby payments and tax credits were borrowed and then he taxed your pensions too and sold all your gold to India for pennies, and now its payback time and no one is liking the medicine Yep,and many people have forgotten about all of that already ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Indeed and thankfully many of us will always remember his strange approach to ******* this country up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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