Guest Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 So nothing fires off a thread more than a debate about penetration variance between .22 and .177. My anecdotal evidence: .177 penetrates further than .22. It's why I dont like using .177 on birds and squirrels because the pellet flys straight through. The theory: ballistic coefficient determined retained energy so a .22 should pen further than a .177. In the red corner: BSA Ultra SE in .22 (11.4 ftlbs) firing AA Diablo Fields 15.9Gn. In the blue corner: BSA Scorpion SE in .177 (11.6 ftlbs) firing JSB Heavies 10.3Gn. According to Chairgun these pellets have the same ballistic coefficient - but they dont behave the same. Exibit A: I bought some modelling clay. It was cold and hard. You can see that the .177 pens deeper than the .22 /..... Then I warmed up the clay and tested the .22: Boy did the .22 pen! The cavity was huge. Then the .177. It didn't go as far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 Dam though the title was about something completely different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me matt Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Snoozer said: Dam though the title was about something completely different your not alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 So same bc but different and opposite to when the clay was cold. My take? If the pellet has to break through something hard e.g. bone, the .177 passes through better. Its why the .177 can pen chipboard but a .22 will bounce. However if its softish material then the heavier .22 will pen further. Most tests are done with ballistic gel or soap, so this is the behaviour recorded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 Well done dc .keep at it. Although I would say it's a little unfair testing a heavy weight .177 against a med weight .22 A true test would be 8.44 grn v 16 grn Or. 10.3 grn v 21 grn Or 7.4 grn v 13.4 grn If you put a heavy .177 against a light .22 then the .177 is more likely to penetrate deeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 Yep, that 10.3 grain pellet does punch through live tissue. Shooting barn pigeons at the moment and have to be careful as the 10.3s go straight through the pigeon and some/not all put a neat little hole in the cement roof. This is at 10 to 25yrds along a large open wintering cattle shed. I'm using both, those 10.3s and some 14.3gr Mosquitos in 22 and after now killing 149 barn pigeons I cannot honestly see any difference in the ability to do the job. Sometimes just a THUMP! and sometimes a dull thump and a sharp crack as the pellet hits the roof/purlin behind. Obviously based on what it comes up against as it passes through the bird. Interesting to see the effect on that clay though, have you tried it on dead flesh and bone, a pigeon, rabbit. better still a grey tree rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 Can't imagine him getting a nice clean cut in a squirrel for the pictures. Good pics DC, I was thinking the .22 was heavy, my accupells are only 14 grains. realise the clay reacts differently to the real thing but it's a good example. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 24 minutes ago, Mice! said: Can't imagine him getting a nice clean cut in a squirrel for the pictures. Good pics DC, I was thinking the .22 was heavy, my accupells are only 14 grains. realise the clay reacts differently to the real thing but it's a good example. ?? Easy...freeze it solid first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 I had a couple of squzzers just for that purpose but Mrs DC was sniffing around so I didnt get the chance. Next time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 54 minutes ago, Walker570 said: Easy...freeze it solid first. 16 minutes ago, DC177 said: I had a couple of squzzers just for that purpose but Mrs DC was sniffing around so I didnt get the chance. Next time... But then there hard like the clay was to begin with, see what I mean arry and the flesh closes up, I shot one a while back in the garden front on chest shot, I could see an exit would small blob of blood but could not find the entry point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertt Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 B.C is to do with the properties of a projectile whilst in flight. For penetration properties Sectional Density S.D is the factor. More retained energy could mean better expansion thus less penetration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 NOOOOOOOO!!!! Freeze it after you've shot it then finding the entry / exit cut across that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, Walker570 said: NOOOOOOOO!!!! Freeze it after you've shot it then finding the entry / exit cut across that line. That makes sense, be like an episode of CSI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 Cut Squirrel Investigation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I meant that all along?? 34 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: Cut Squirrel Investigation? now come on Bruno you've been itching for an argument, what's your take on the penetration debate, you've got both flavours, poke poke prod prod, I'm here all night ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Loving the thought of being poked and prodded at 1 in the morning at my age - brings back fond memories . As for the penetration debate I can only go by my own experience and clumsy tests on paperback books - the smaller calibre seems to win hands down on paper and in the field ( I have written to some length about Squirrels being shot clean thru the head and still being fully conscious with the .177) whereas the .22 seems to deliver more shock on impact. Being renowned as one of the worlds tightest beings I would not have bought the .22 S410 if not for the above reason (although it is stunning and was hard to refuse at the price) and have ,so far, not experienced the reasonably healthy, ventilated head, Tree Rat syndrome. This needs to be taken in context however taking into account that most of my shooting is currently Squizzers - if I'm simply "mooching" around looking for hapless vermin then I prefer the .177. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 On 20/12/2017 at 16:53, Ultrastu said: Although I would say it's a little unfair testing a heavy weight .177 against a med weight .22 Why? They have the same bc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburban shooter Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 BC and velocity and weight and sectional density are all important factors. if you leave one of these factors out you are always gong to argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted December 26, 2017 Report Share Posted December 26, 2017 Just use a light wadcutter or some of the tipped expanding pellets to help with stopping over penetration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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