Alliant Steel Powder

[figgy]

Anyone use the Load data off the Alliant Steel site, Been looking at 3" loads and as they list federal hulls it makes me wonder if people came up with a safe substitute like a cheddite case and also a different primer than the fed 209 listed.

About to put an order together for my loading of 3" goose carts using once fired Eley Lightning cases so looking to buy the right components. I have data kindly sent to me for a 34g load.

Anyone care to share their favourite 3" steel loads.

Thanks for any help info Figgy

[Guest cookoff013]

i`d personally only start laods that are 36g for this particular powder. 

check over the data on there sight its cool with 36g.

[figgy]

8 minutes ago, cookoff013 said:

i`d personally only start laods that are 36g for this particular powder. 

check over the data on there sight its cool with 36g.

Dont really have a choice to go heavier as thats all i can get in a 3" case with large shot. If i go smalleer shot i can get 36gram in.

What powder would you use for 34 or 35 gram steel wildfowl loads.

I have had a look at the data and the only heavier load is for 31/2" cases. Or am i missing something? wouldn't surprise me to find i am looking at wrong bit of Alliants data.

Edited March 28, 2018 by figgy

[Guest cookoff013]

there is not much difference between 34g steel and 36g steel when its all boiled down.

as soon as the 36g or 1,1/4 oz loads are there the data gets less silly, there are nolonger silly high powder charges. 

jumping to the 3.5" hulls then 36g loads are absolutely stoked up. (the limit for 3.5, 12ga is 14000 psi / saami)
the 1,1/2oz loads then come into it (3.5" ) and the loads themselves settle down to some sensible powder charges. 

chewing over all the data it seems there is a certain powder charge thats good. about 35 grains. but all of this is partially biased as the primers they use are really hot. just to get the stuff burning.

[figgy]

Cookoff013 i was thinking of using CX2000 primers with  steel powder should be hot enough.

What about cases and wads they list on the alliant site what can we substitute for them?

[motty]

Let me have a look at my data. I have a lot for A Steel. I use mainly sam1 wads. They are a little expensive, but I like them. I often substitute cases, but just lay off a couple of grains from the recipes.

How big are the pellets you want to use?

[Guest cookoff013]

2 hours ago, figgy said:

Cookoff013 i was thinking of using CX2000 primers with  steel powder should be hot enough.

What about cases and wads they list on the alliant site what can we substitute for them?

Stick to the data. 

[Guest cookoff013]

Nb.

When i test stuff i often compare components etc.

[Continental Shooter]

From the BPI manual Status of Steel, all 3" Cheddite .209 (CX2000)

 

Powder (Grains)     Shot (grains)    PRessure (PSI)   Speed (FPS)

43                         492                     10000                   1605

38                         492                     9500                     1440

36                         492                     8700                     1375

39                         492                      9900                    1525

31.5                      546                      9800                    1300

There are also loads with Fiocchi 616 (not sure if original, silver or gold though as they have different power with original being the weaker and gold being the hotter)

Hope this helps

[figgy]

Motty

I’ll be loading BB. and BBB in a 3” case I know the count is down on BBB but I had success last season with long range Carlson cremator when the geese were a little shy staying a bit further out. 

Going to put order in to clay and game today so I best get a couple different wad types.

Do any of you use 209 primers or stick with cx2000 ? 

Thanks for the help lads, I’ll pay it forward in future 

Edited March 29, 2018 by figgy

[islandgun]

16 hours ago, Continental Shooter said:

From the BPI manual Status of Steel, all 3" Cheddite .209 (CX2000)

 

Powder (Grains)     Shot (grains)    PRessure (PSI)   Speed (FPS)

43                         492                     10000                   1605

38                         492                     9500                     1440

36                         492                     8700                     1375

39                         492                      9900                    1525

31.5                      546                      9800                    1300

There are also loads with Fiocchi 616 (not sure if original, silver or gold though as they have different power with original being the weaker and gold being the hotter)

Hope this helps

Thats great, any mention of wads, TPS ?

[landofficer]

Look at ballistic products website and go to TPS wads then click on a wad and there is a link to new data for TPS wads 

[motty]

Figgy, you can easily fit 36 grams of BBB in a 3" case. I would personally go no bigger than BB in that payload.

[figgy]

Motty what load recipes are you using for the 36g 3” steel

ive ordered three types of wad sam1, b&p s35, 3” TPS and CX2000 & some other  something like G1000 primers for Spanish cases.  Wad slick buffer and more steel shot in BB,  I’ll probably  keep the BBB shot for either a 10bore or 31/2” 12g loads if I buy a 10 pump or buy a 12g super nova. 

Been reading that the Status of Steel Manual has some un tested loads and dangerous loads so think I’ll go for rsi and lyman’s manuals. 

[Guest cookoff013]

17 minutes ago, figgy said:

Motty what load recipes are you using for the 36g 3” steel

ive ordered three types of wad sam1, b&p s35, 3” TPS and CX2000 & some other  something like G1000 primers for Spanish cases.  Wad slick buffer and more steel shot in BB,  I’ll probably  keep the BBB shot for either a 10bore or 31/2” 12g loads if I buy a 10 pump or buy a 12g super nova. 

Been reading that the Status of Steel Manual has some un tested loads and dangerous loads so think I’ll go for rsi and lyman’s manuals. 

The manual by bpi?

[motty]

40 minutes ago, figgy said:

Motty what load recipes are you using for the 36g 3” steel

ive ordered three types of wad sam1, b&p s35, 3” TPS and CX2000 & some other  something like G1000 primers for Spanish cases.  Wad slick buffer and more steel shot in BB,  I’ll probably  keep the BBB shot for either a 10bore or 31/2” 12g loads if I buy a 10 pump or buy a 12g super nova. 

Been reading that the Status of Steel Manual has some un tested loads and dangerous loads so think I’ll go for rsi and lyman’s manuals. 

Last night I loaded a 36 gm BBB cartridge, just to make sure it was possible. It was actually around 4 grains under, as I never exceed the payload in pellets. There were maybe 3 pellets that were stacked a little above the wad, but that's fine. I used a Remington case and sam1 wad.

I have been using RSI data for a few years now. Some folk will tell you that the new batches of Alliant Steel are 'hotter' than the old stuff. I tend to stick to the recipes (powder charges) regardless, though I don't really bother with 'fast' loads anymore. I also don't bother loading my own duck cartridges.

Wad slick is more hassle than its worth.

[figgy]

Motty I won’t bother loading duck carts as im happy with Gamebore and some other manufacturers 32g steel carts. 

The few pellets above the wad was like that when I opened some up to change the shot,  set back on firing puts them inside so I’m not worried about that. In BBB I got about 35g in and a good crimp. Trying to get a few more pellets in gave a poor crimp. 

Now im going to reload from scratch not just swap shot, so looking forward to it.  Is it worth spinning the crimp as I’ve read it can increase pressures.

I did read on Duck Hunting Chat that one of the members rang Alliant to ask about the lot to lot batch difference it’s all tested, he was told no difference so load the same as you would for the older batch. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by figgy

[figgy]

1 hour ago, cookoff013 said:

The manual by bpi?

Yes it was the Bpi manual, the 19th edition has had lots of recipes removed. 

Apparently some wouldn’t even fit in a case. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by figgy

[hatsanmad]

Figgy I load a 3inch 36gram with a steel and its a cracking little load. 

I load it at

36grain a steel 

B&P s35 

3inch cheddite 

Cx2000 

36gram steel shot 

Crimp finish 

I have used this load the majority of the season gone I know a few guys that load the same load but use 37grain of powder instead hope this helps 

[figgy]

Hatsanmad that load seems a popular loading with some using a grain more or less in powder.

Do you know what speed is that recipe running at ?

 

[Smiler23]

That load is a beast, it's the only load I make for 12

[Continental Shooter]

22 hours ago, islandgun said:

Thats great, any mention of wads, TPS ?

they're either TPS or Ranger.  BTW these were from the V.18 of the BPI manual.  I have also read that some of their 'Load of the week' were 'untested' or returned different stats when retested onindependent proofing barrels.

Now, there will be a wider assesment to me made as to the set up of each proofing barrel and all other things but the ones i retest in ITX were in line or slightly below what was published (perhaps because the CX2000 and more so the Fiocchi 616 are weaker than most american primers)

Also, you're right spinning over the crimp will increase pressure at a rate of 100 bar x mm (maybe a tad more with steel)

So, although not particularly dangerous on modern guns;  on already high-ish pressure shells -with steel- will dirupt the internal ballistic resulting in poorer performance compared to the original shell

And yes, certain manufacturere tend to have an inconsistent production; primary example was Vectan with a production of 'A' powders with massive swings from one batch to another border lining dangerous changes.  I recall my 30 g load with A0 which returned nearly 300 bar more from a production dated 2005 and one dated 2010 ....

Another example is the IMR 800X which  has remained consistent since first produced by Dupont with insignificant variations in burning rates which make it the most reliable powder i ever known; anotehr example is B&P M92S; another great powder which has had very little changes in the past few decades.

However, in most cases the variation is small but can still affect the ability of the powder to throw the payload at the prssure/speed orequired (or that you're used to).  Hence why users in US claime different batches perform differently.  Manufacturers have no interest in telling you their recipe and what has changed in the powder; but the proofing barrel, and most importantly the field trial, don't lie...

 

[motty]

15 hours ago, figgy said:

Motty I won’t bother loading duck carts as im happy with Gamebore and some other manufacturers 32g steel carts. 

The few pellets above the wad was like that when I opened some up to change the shot,  set back on firing puts them inside so I’m not worried about that. In BBB I got about 35g in and a good crimp. Trying to get a few more pellets in gave a poor crimp. 

Now im going to reload from scratch not just swap shot, so looking forward to it.  Is it worth spinning the crimp as I’ve read it can increase pressures.

I did read on Duck Hunting Chat that one of the members rang Alliant to ask about the lot to lot batch difference it’s all tested, he was told no difference so load the same as you would for the older batch. 

Well I thought the same about the difference in powder. Surely if some batches were considered 'hotter' then it can't really be considered to be the same powder!

You can easily fit 36gm BBB in the 3" sam1 wads.

I give all my home loads a spin with the gaep on the pillar drill. It turns poor crimps into good ones, though I usually get superb crimps with Remington cases anyway. I honestly don't worry about pressure increases too much. My guns and I are still alive, so I haven't got it that badly wrong yet! I know of a few people who load ridiculously high pressure loads and they are still fine. I think you would really have to mess up to have big problems.

[Guest cookoff013]

10 hours ago, hatsanmad said:

Figgy I load a 3inch 36gram with a steel and its a cracking little load. 

I load it at

36grain a steel 

B&P s35 

3inch cheddite 

Cx2000 

36gram steel shot 

Crimp finish 

I have used this load the majority of the season gone I know a few guys that load the same load but use 37grain of powder instead hope this helps 

Hmm,

Cracking,

Steel,

36g steel,

Stella !

[edenman]

9 hours ago, figgy said:

Hatsanmad that load seems a popular loading with some using a grain more or less in powder.

Do you know what speed is that recipe running at ?

 

I use this load a lot and I get 1450fps over the chrono with it.