Getting rather serious this Syria thing.

[pinfireman]

On 4/11/2018 at 10:27, 12gauge82 said:

Unless the Russians and Syria back down, I think America, possibly backed by France and the UK will put a strike in, the thing is, it was made clear further chemical attacks in Syria was a red line not to be crossed, I think not taking action could be as dangerous as doing nothing at all, a case of give an inch and the Russians will take a mile, then two, then a few thousand.

Correct! The Syrian/Russian attacks are a clear breach of international law....this is clearly a case of Putin seeing how far he can push before  we make a stand.  Every international body is quite clear that chemical weapons are outlawed.  Russia isn,t there solely to help Assad, but to  keep a firm hold on its only bases in the Med area.

On 4/11/2018 at 10:51, Hamster said:

Why should Russia or Syria back down ? This is a false flag in the same old fashioned way that every time they rout out the Western backed Islamist inspired terrorists with a dozen fancy names murica's butt gets more and more hurt and orders a world wide fake news propaganda attack. 

Why would Assad use chemicals AFTER he's already taken this town over ? It's more and more ridiculous to believe anything the muricans ever say when it comes to the middle east. In my view Russia can't and won't back down because capitulation to bullies will only serve to make them bolder. Those who larfed and larfed and said I was being dramatic over the Skirpal affair please take note, this false flag was planned well ahead and in fact Russia has been pre-warning everyone that it was going to happen - it'll get waaaaay messier before it improves, if at all. The Empires are falling and can't comprehend Western hegemony and grip over the rest of the planet is coming to an end, tis the dying throes. 

Then why wont Putin / Assad let international inspectors in? United Nations people, not ours?  As for why they did it, it was to winkle out those people living underground, away from the standard weapons being used....you spout bovine scatorum!

On 4/11/2018 at 11:02, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, you can argue the toss over this fore ever but when you see the TV reports and those Syrian nationals including so many lovely young children in pain and despair or dead it should strike a cord in all humanity,  

Correct! There is no way they did this to themselves!

[Hamster]

8 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

Correct! The Syrian/Russian attacks are a clear breach of international law....this is clearly a case of Putin seeing how far he can push before  we make a stand.  Every international body is quite clear that chemical weapons are outlawed.  Russia isn,t there solely to help Assad, but to  keep a firm hold on its only bases in the Med area.

Then why wont Putin / Assad let international inspectors in? United Nations people, not ours?  As for why they did it, it was to winkle out those people living underground, away from the standard weapons being used....you spout bovine scatorum!

Correct! There is no way they did this to themselves!

All I can say is OMG, you're about a week behind with reality. 

[pinfireman]

On 4/11/2018 at 11:19, Hamster said:

"Tell me you believe that Washington is so concerned about a couple of dozen Syrians "killed" in an alleged chemical weapons attack in their own country that they are willing to deploy a fleet of warships and thousands of their troops, risking a confrontation with other nuclear powers, to punish a "crime" they themselves vehemently condemn but refuse to allow an independent investigation on.

Tell me you're aware of their lying over Saddam Hussein's WMD (already admitted to), of their lying about Libya and Yugoslavia; tell me you know all that, but you still believe this time is different.

Tell me that and I'll tell you to look in a mirror to see the image of fool."  - George Ades

 

Ah, the kindly Russians, who would not hurt a fly, but who deliberately starved to death 6 million Russian and Ukrainian people in the 1930,s....Putin, a former member of the KGB, who, in the 40,s and 50,s fed "alleged" spies into their  prison furnaces...alive! Revealed when Yeltsin opened up the KGB files... yet all this was denied by people of your political standing during the first 70  years of Soviet rule............up to 1 million Polish men worked to death in the Gulags between 1939 and 1941.  Hundreds of thousands of returning servicemen and refugees Poles, Czechs, Ukrainians, Hungarians who all disappeared between 1945 and 1949.... but hey! Let,s believe friendly old Putin.....

14 hours ago, Hamster said:

Launching attacks before waiting to see the findings of an independent body to investigate !! 

Putin would not let an independent body in! Not until they have "cleaned up" the site!

13 hours ago, Hamster said:

"Should Britain attack the Syrian military, who will benefit? I’ll tell you who: ISIS and Al-Qaeda, the very groups who carried out the Westminster, Manchester and London Bridge terrorist attacks. The Syrian military is the heart and soul in the fight against Islamist terrorism." Marcus Papadopoulos

Assad/Russia/Iran are engaged in ridding the country from the kind of vermin that attacks us in Europe's streets, let that sink in. 

The last couple of months we have had words associated with chemicals/nerve agents/etc constantly associated with Russia and now Iran too as an Assad supporter, this is how fake news and demonisation works. They soften you up and manufacture consent for more and more wars. It needs to stop or eventually it will no longer be a one sided show we all watch and ignore on telly. 

Rubbish! For every small air attack against ISIS, Russia has launched a dozen attacks purely against Assads enemies....and that from someone with the RAF in Cyprus, who monitor by radar the Russian attacks, and their locations!

[pinfireman]

6 minutes ago, Hamster said:

All I can say is OMG, you're about a week behind with reality. 

Your devotion to Putin is touching................

[ordnance]

Quote

Or we create a power vacuum like Libya, leading to unrest, and 10s of thousands of deaths? 

But apart from that, everyones a winner. 

Create a power vacuum in Syria causing 10s of thousands of deaths LOL . Do you watch the news. horse and stable door spring to mind. 

[Walker570]

Well, it happened. Hundred plus missiles so it is said.  I think Putins bluff has been called. In addition more information is coming out regarding the attack in Salisbury and the background, plus some inane comments from Russia....I'm surprised they have not suggested the Duke of Edinburgh did it !!!

[sierra 11]

" I'm surprised they have not suggested the Duke of Edinburgh did it !!! "

Oh! for goodness sake! can no-one  be trusted to keep a secret on this forum ?...............

[Rewulf]

15 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Create a power vacuum in Syria causing 10s of thousands of deaths LOL . Do you watch the news. horse and stable door spring to mind. 

I mean after the Americans bring them democracy silly 

[Retsdon]

3 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Well, it happened. Hundred plus missiles so it is said.  I think Putins bluff has been called. In addition more information is coming out regarding the attack in Salisbury and the background, plus some inane comments from Russia....I'm surprised they have not suggested the Duke of Edinburgh did it !!!

Do you mean the alleged Swiss Federal Institute results? Well, if what the Russians are saying turns out to be true it would throw some doubt on the business.

[ordnance]

7 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Well, it happened. Hundred plus missiles so it is said.  I think Putins bluff has been called. In addition more information is coming out regarding the attack in Salisbury and the background, plus some inane comments from Russia....I'm surprised they have not suggested the Duke of Edinburgh did it !!!

The Russians put out propaganda like it was a dodgy prawn etc not a chemical weapon, knowing that some gullible people will beleave them and spread around the net. They would see these people as useful fools. 

[Bazooka Joe]

Something else to cloud the water.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-14/independent-swiss-lab-says-bz-toxin-used-skripal-poisoning-usuk-produced-not

[Hamster]

42 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

Your devotion to Putin is touching................

Touching what ? 

[Okrang]

5 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Touching what ? 

Hopefully, not the door handle! 

 

[Retsdon]

16 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Something else to cloud the water.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-14/independent-swiss-lab-says-bz-toxin-used-skripal-poisoning-usuk-produced-not

Well, I wouldn't entirely trust Zerohedge. But, whether you like him or not,  Lavrov is an old-fashioned diplomat who picks his words carefully and if he is categorically asserting that the Swiss lab reported the presence of this BZ stuff, and that  they deemed the A234 nerve agent unusually pure,  then you'd have to think there's something to it. After all, it only needs the Swiss Lab to call him a liar and that's his credibility gone. On the other hand, if Russia has a written version of the report and Lavrov is quoting it, then it's game on and Boris has some explaining to do.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Retsdon

[ordnance]

 

Quote

 

 

•  

 

Quote

 

 

30 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Something else to cloud the water.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-14/independent-swiss-lab-says-bz-toxin-used-skripal-poisoning-usuk-produced-not

Yeah great source.  PS How did the laboratory get a sample of the nerve agent, ? or was it a dodgy pawn.  

Quote

Zero Hedge.  As many accredited news reports have revealed, the real name of Zero Hedge’s Tyler Durden is “Daniel Ivandjiiski”, a name that raised many eyebrows due to its suspiciously Slavic origins. But accredited journalists maintained their integrity for years, and refrained from voicing their suspicions that the mysterious Tyler Durden was in fact a Russian agent, running the notorious blog “Zero Hedge” as a Kremlin propaganda machine. But today, the Accredited Times can finally say for sure that Daniel Ivandjiiski is in fact a Russian agent.

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by ordnance

[Retsdon]

7 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Yeah great source. I refer back to my other post. PS How did the laboratory get a sample of the nerve agent, ? or was it a dodgy pawn.  LOL. 

 

 

Yeah great source.  PS How did the laboratory get a sample of the nerve agent, ? or was it a dodgy pawn.  LOL. 

 

That's funny, quoting Accredited News as a source to complain about another source. Zero Hedge might be a bit one sided, but they don't post articles claiming that the Bible says to nuke Syria!, ???

https://www.accredited-times.com/2018/04/11/biblical-case-nuking-syria-defend-israel/

[ordnance]

9 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

That's funny, quoting Accredited News as a source to complain about another source. Zero Hedge might be a bit one sided, but they don't post articles claiming that the Bible says to nuke Syria!, ???

https://www.accredited-times.com/2018/04/11/biblical-case-nuking-syria-defend-israel/

There are lots of sources regarding Zero Hedge, if you want to believe  Zero Hedge and obvious Russian misinformation fell free. I refer back to my earlier  post bellow. 

Quote

The Russians put out propaganda like it was a dodgy prawn etc not a chemical weapon, knowing that some gullible people will beleave them and spread around the net. They would see these people as useful fools. 

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by ordnance

[Retsdon]

10 minutes ago, ordnance said:

There are lots of sources regarding Zero Hedge, if you want to believe  Zero Hedge and obvious Russian misinformation fell free. I refer back to my earlier  post bellow. 

 

I don't always believe ZeroHedge. See my caveat above. But the Swiss report is interesting. According to Reuters, Lavrov is directly quoting from the report. As to your question of why the Swiss lab had the sample, they were given it by the OPCW to test. That's their job. Whether the Russians were given a copy of the Swiss Institute's lab report for OPCW, or whether it was leaked to them, or even if they hacked in and stole it - it appears from Lavrov's confidence to be the genuine article.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-skripal-lavrov/russias-lavrov-says-skripals-may-have-been-poisoned-by-substance-russia-never-made-idUKKBN1HL17G

[ordnance]

47 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I don't always believe ZeroHedge. See my caveat above. But the Swiss report is interesting. According to Reuters, Lavrov is directly quoting from the report. As to your question of why the Swiss lab had the sample, they were given it by the OPCW to test. That's their job. Whether the Russians were given a copy of the Swiss Institute's lab report for OPCW, or whether it was leaked to them, or even if they hacked in and stole it - it appears from Lavrov's confidence to be the genuine article.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-skripal-lavrov/russias-lavrov-says-skripals-may-have-been-poisoned-by-substance-russia-never-made-idUKKBN1HL17G

Yeah, the British government give a chemical nerve agent sample that had already being tested by porton down and confirmed as novichok, knowing that a independent lab would find it was something else linked to the UK and America.  Its just more Russian misinformation like the dodgy prawn  etc.  

Quote

It did not name novichok directly but said: "The results of the analysis by the OPCW designated laboratories of environmental and biomedical samples collected by the OPCW team confirms the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and severely injured three people." Tests by military experts at the Porton Down laboratories in Wiltshire found that novichok, one of a group of deadly chemical compounds developed by the Soviet government in the 1970s and 1980s, was responsible for the poisoning.

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by ordnance

[ordnance]

Quote

As to your question of why the Swiss lab had the sample, they were given it by the OPCW to test.

 What lab was it, ? And what evidence do you have that it was given a sample by the OPCW.  So if true the OPCW are just making it up as they go along and ignoring a finding from a laboratory they chose and supplied samples to test. 

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, ordnance said:

 What lab was it, ? And what evidence do you have that it was given a sample by the OPCW.  So if true the OPCW are just making it up as they go along and ignoring a finding from a laboratory they chose and supplied samples to test. 

Apparently 4 different labs were given samples to test. 

And once the results were in, the Russians would have been given a copy, they are after all, members of the OPCW. 

[Retsdon]

11 minutes ago, ordnance said:

What lab was it, ?

Why can't you do your own research?  A simple google search with a few key words worked for me. 

[ordnance]

21 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Why can't you do your own research?  A simple google search with a few key words worked for me. 

You were the one that posted that the lab in question was given the sample by the OPW, not me why would i want to back up your clams, that's not the way it works.  

Quote

Retsdon. As to your question of why the Swiss lab had the sample, they were given it by the OPCW to test.

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by ordnance

[ordnance]

21 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Apparently 4 different labs were given samples to test. 

And once the results were in, the Russians would have been given a copy, they are after all, members of the OPCW. 

So the OPCW and the numerous other countries that back the UKs claim that novichok was used are lying, and the Russians are telling the truth OK i get it now. 

[Rewulf]

Now that's not what I said is it? 

And the 'numerous other countries' don't know anything until the OPCW labs publish their report, unless we tell them, because we already knew it was Russia, cos Boris said so, cos a 'guy' at Porton told him, it definitely was, but then changed his mind