JJsDad Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: It is not as smooth closing (well mine isn't) as a good Purdey, I have (unfortunately) never owned a Purdey, but I have shot one and handled a number of others over the years. While dear old Goff Thomas explained in some detail the knack of reloading and in particular in overcoming the unfortunate tendency of being slightly difficult to close; I have always been amused by the little story concerning the Texas oil billionaire & the MD of Purdey at the time. The proud Texas owner apparently re-visited Audley House sometime after taking delivery of his gold inlaid sidelock, but in discussion with the Purdey MD over coffee admitted slight dissatisfaction with his gun, in that he found it difficult to close ! With what I consider typical English humour, and as quick as a flash, the MD is reputed to have replied: "My dear fellow, don`t you have someone to do that for you ?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, JJsDad said: I have (unfortunately) never owned a Purdey, but I have shot one and handled a number of others over the years. I am much the same as the above. My godfather had a set of 3 featherweight Purdeys (a whisker over 6 ibs with 28" barrels and fairly long stocks in 12 bore) and I shot those occasionally, but they didn't fit me well (he was well over 6 feet, I am only 5'9"). When looking for my Atkin Spring Opener (a quest that took some time, as budget was limited), and one I handled had clearly been 'got at' by a bodger, there is quite a lot of difference between one and another. I have been lucky enough to handle some 'under tuition' from a gunsmith - in that he knew I wouldn't be buying any of his Purdeys, but I had done him a good turn, and he showed me what the difference between a 'good' and a 'bad' was. The Atkin I bought was as nice as any I have handled, and fitted me 'off the shelf' as well, though it has been fitted with a leather covered pad added at some stage in it's life. It is no 2 of a pair, and is well in nitro reproof, and has obviously had a fair amount of use, but remains very sound. It hasn't been 'tarted up' as so many have and has well worn bluing on the barrels and worn chequering, but these are signs of honest wear. It was made in 1911. Your story reminds me of a (true) story; We had a rather 'haughty' gun who used to come as a guest fairly regularly (I think his host travelled on business quite a bit) - and he was rather proud of his Holland and Holland (a modern sporter o/u, not a true Royal). One of our regular 'wags' who was very 'Brummie' and a big William Powell fan, decided to wind him up about this and asked to look at the gun between drives. He looked carefully over the gun, closed it and put it up in a safe direction, and made appreciative noises, opened it, examined it again and handed it back with the comment "very nice, I never knew the Dutch made guns". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Old farrier said: Bit of difference between French pinfire and British ones best to try empty cases in gun before loading them just a thought Yes, yes, yess been looking for English pinfire cases for years as the french ones don't fit. I have two 16 bore guns waiting to be fired! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 With all the talk of clay shooting and sxs I thought I would give one of mine an airing as I wanted to shoot over the pup. It has not been out of the cabinet for a few years. The pup has been to the ground a few times but not when I was shooting. So I took this John Ross out and had about 75 shots with 24 gm loads. I am not a clay shot so hit a few and missed a few. Surprisingly I hit a few off the high tower at Westlands which is a first for me. The dog just chilled and behaved impeccably. So both gun and dog did the business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said: Yes, yes, yess been looking for English pinfire cases for years as the french ones don't fit. I have two 16 bore guns waiting to be fired! Enclosed are images of pin fire cartridges from 8 ,10,12,14,16,20,24,28,,410plus a image of a 16 bore sxs pinfire Belgian . Feltwad 16 bore pinfire Edited May 5, 2018 by Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 33 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said: Yes, yes, yess been looking for English pinfire cases for years as the french ones don't fit. I have two 16 bore guns waiting to be fired! Happy to dig them out & put a vernier across them if that would help. I dont actually recall any manufacturers marking(s) on the card body or head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 42 minutes ago, JJsDad said: Happy to dig them out & put a vernier across them if that would help. I dont actually recall any manufacturers marking(s) on the card body or head. Yes please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 43 minutes ago, JJsDad said: Happy to dig them out & put a vernier across them if that would help. I dont actually recall any manufacturers marking(s) on the card body or head. It’s the head space to check:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 58 minutes ago, Feltwad said: Enclosed are images of pin fire cartridges from 8 ,10,12,14,16,20,24,28,,410plus a image of a 16 bore sxs pinfire Belgian . Feltwad 16 bore pinfire Lovely quality will post photos of my Westley Ricards and John Blanch when I get time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 43 minutes ago, JJsDad said: Happy to dig them out & put a vernier across them if that would help. I dont actually recall any manufacturers marking(s) on the card body or head. It’s the head space to check:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Dave at kelton said: With all the talk of clay shooting and sxs I thought I would give one of mine an airing as I wanted to shoot over the pup. It has not been out of the cabinet for a few years. The pup has been to the ground a few times but not when I was shooting. So I took this John Ross out and had about 75 shots with 24 gm loads. I am not a clay shot so hit a few and missed a few. Surprisingly I hit a few off the high tower at Westlands which is a first for me. The dog just chilled and behaved impeccably. So both gun and dog did the business Fine looking gun! Where did John Ross trade ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, matone said: Fine looking gun! Where did John Ross trade ? Not a common name in the gun trade , I have the names of three gun makers with Ross but all were in the late flintlock and early percussion period two in Kent and one in Edinburgh Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Feltwad said: Not a common name in the gun trade , I have the names of three gun makers with Ross but all were in the late flintlock and early percussion period two in Kent and one in Edinburgh Feltwad Quite he is said to have been at 18 St John's Grove, Richmond, Surrey. All I have been told was that he is thought to have been an out-worker for Stephen Grant which would account for the side lever. There the similarity ends. The fences are comparitively shallow.The engraving is very fine scroll work over the whole action and more like the type I have seen on Edwinson Green guns. The barrels are well struck up but only 27 inches and do not appear shortened. The top strap is cast well right but the stock has been taken well left which is one of the reasons I bought it as it is a great fit now I have extended it to 15" with a leather covered pad. Whoever John Ross was he made a best quality sidelock ejector stocked to the fences. I have a fitted case but know the case lable has been made up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Dave at kelton said: Yes please I havent had chance to measure them up, as the vernier battery has died after sitting in the garage all winter. But will get a replacement & come up with some dimensions tomorrow. There are, on a quick check, only qty 3 or 4 of the beige cases. These are totally unmarked. So where they came from is anyone`s guess. The red cases, there are around qty 40 or 50. The brass head is marked `16` and to my mild surprise, having been found in a French loft; they are in fact Italian !! The head is marked: "Beaux" - "Milano". The case body is marked: " Societa Italiana Munizioni - Leon Beaux & C - Milano" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 1 hour ago, JJsDad said: I havent had chance to measure them up, as the vernier battery has died after sitting in the garage all winter. But will get a replacement & come up with some dimensions tomorrow. There are, on a quick check, only qty 3 or 4 of the beige cases. These are totally unmarked. So where they came from is anyone`s guess. The red cases, there are around qty 40 or 50. The brass head is marked `16` and to my mild surprise, having been found in a French loft; they are in fact Italian !! The head is marked: "Beaux" - "Milano". The case body is marked: " Societa Italiana Munizioni - Leon Beaux & C - Milano" Interesting but no guarantee they will fit without trying one. The pin on the ones I have tried to date is too far back for English guns so they won't close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin55 Posted May 6, 2018 Report Share Posted May 6, 2018 16 hours ago, Dave at kelton said: With all the talk of clay shooting and sxs I thought I would give one of mine an airing as I wanted to shoot over the pup. It has not been out of the cabinet for a few years. The pup has been to the ground a few times but not when I was shooting. So I took this John Ross out and had about 75 shots with 24 gm loads. I am not a clay shot so hit a few and missed a few. Surprisingly I hit a few off the high tower at Westlands which is a first for me. The dog just chilled and behaved impeccably. So both gun and dog did the business Very nice, I do like side levers and they seem to suit the left-handed shooter like me, using the thumb to open The Internet Gun Club shows John Ross as an outworker https://www.internetgunclub.com/database/historicalresult.php?id=69234&country=anycountry&area=&firstname=john&surname=ross&text=¤tpage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted May 6, 2018 Report Share Posted May 6, 2018 13 hours ago, Dave at kelton said: Interesting but no guarantee they will fit without trying one. The pin on the ones I have tried to date is too far back for English guns so they won't close Some details shown in photo`s below. Difficult to get an accurate measurement of where the pin exits the base to the actual base, due to using vernier jaws around the slight off-set. I don`t know the first thing about pin fires, but note that all the pins lean to the rear by several degree`s after they protrude from the base. When stood on a flat surface, the base & the extreme end of the pin contact the surface they are stood on. Trust this helps. I measured 3 different cases, the dimensions shown are the max and min of the 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted May 6, 2018 Report Share Posted May 6, 2018 2 hours ago, JJsDad said: Some details shown in photo`s below. Difficult to get an accurate measurement of where the pin exits the base to the actual base, due to using vernier jaws around the slight off-set. I don`t know the first thing about pin fires, but note that all the pins lean to the rear by several degree`s after they protrude from the base. When stood on a flat surface, the base & the extreme end of the pin contact the surface they are stood on. Trust this helps. I measured 3 different cases, the dimensions shown are the max and min of the 3. Thanks I will check my guns and get back to you. 3 hours ago, kevin55 said: Very nice, I do like side levers and they seem to suit the left-handed shooter like me, using the thumb to open The Internet Gun Club shows John Ross as an outworker https://www.internetgunclub.com/database/historicalresult.php?id=69234&country=anycountry&area=&firstname=john&surname=ross&text=¤tpage Thanks I will look this up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted May 6, 2018 Report Share Posted May 6, 2018 On 05/05/2018 at 17:23, JohnfromUK said: He looked carefully over the gun, closed it and put it up in a safe direction, and made appreciative noises, opened it, examined it again and handed it back with the comment "very nice, I never knew the Dutch made guns". Classic. I must remember that one amongst my mental list of shooting put-downs. Probably a well used one by those who engage in picking-up, but worth repeating here for amusement purposes. .In addition to my occasional loading duties, I pick-up on Partridge shoot that is run on a non-paying invite only basis. As most of the Guns are friends of the owner they remain largely the same from year to year, and are often invited 2 or 3 times during the season. The ground is somewhat flat and for safety reasons we have (numbers permitting) one picker-up stood directly behind each Gun and a further two 300 yards back. Being regulars, the pickers up get to know the Guns, how they invariably perform, what guns they have and whether they are the chatty type or just liketo be left to concentrate on their shooting. Two seasons ago I was allocated to a very genial American who happened to be on business in the UK, and as a result of knowing the owner was invited along. He was using a borrowed gun and admitted while waiting for the first drive that he was not used to driven birds and his normal `hunting` trips involved walked up Pheasants and Quail. At the end of the first drive he had fired off the best part of a box of cartridges without a single bird to show for his efforts. While waiting for the second drive I encouraged him to get his first shot off while the birds were well out in front. He was delaying until the bird was virtually on top of him before he got his first shot off, and subsequently never got the chance of a second barrel. After this, he took on-board the advice and duly killed one well out in front but missed with the second barrel. Turning to watch the disappearing bird he gave a big grin and said, "Do you think that one will come down " ? Without thinking, I dropped the old loaders comment, "It will when its hungry" He looked at me in total incomprehension for about 5 seconds before the penny dropped, luckily he then roared with laughter and at the end of the drive repeated this to a number of other Gun`s and the keeper. I got a bit of a glare from our keeper but as other Gun`s joined in the laughter nothing more was said. He evidently enjoyed his day as his shooting did improve (slightly) and he went out of his way to thank me at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted May 7, 2018 Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 On 06/05/2018 at 11:52, JJsDad said: Some details shown in photo`s below. Difficult to get an accurate measurement of where the pin exits the base to the actual base, due to using vernier jaws around the slight off-set. I don`t know the first thing about pin fires, but note that all the pins lean to the rear by several degree`s after they protrude from the base. When stood on a flat surface, the base & the extreme end of the pin contact the surface they are stood on. Trust this helps. I measured 3 different cases, the dimensions shown are the max and min of the 3. LooKs like they will fit. I drilled out a plastic case I have to fit and it now pretty much accords with these dimensions. I will pm you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted May 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) My 'old AYA No.2, it is my intention over the coming months to bring her back to a more 'pretty' state. I have had this gun for over 20 years and a good gun it has been, but has gone into retirement to a better No.2. First job is to fit a new top lever spring. Edited May 7, 2018 by AYA117 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted May 7, 2018 Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 46 minutes ago, AYA117 said: bring her back to a more 'pretty' state. Outrageous, you could have the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to AYA`s after you ! Could result in you being evicted from the SBS Club. Get those barrel`s in to Dan (Aka Barrel Browner) now ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted May 7, 2018 Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 47 minutes ago, JJsDad said: Outrageous, you could have the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to AYA`s after you ! Could result in you being evicted from the SBS Club. Get those barrel`s in to Dan (Aka Barrel Browner) now ! Better not put a picture of one of my used ones on then you’d need councillors ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted May 7, 2018 Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 These are my two 16 bore pinfire. The one with front facing underlever is a John Blanch which is a bit of a project and may or may not be a shooter. The second is a Westley Richards that is almost as it was when it came out of the factory in the 1860's. 100 % original colour and untouched. I have a copy of the day book with all its details somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted May 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 1 hour ago, JJsDad said: Outrageous, you could have the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to AYA`s after you ! Could result in you being evicted from the SBS Club. Get those barrel`s in to Dan (Aka Barrel Browner) now ! It was well 'used' when I bought it! And for many years it was used constantly by me, there was never a time when it was not needed so just got even more used.It was made around 1963 so has not done too bad for it's age. 39 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Better not put a picture of one of my used ones on then you’d need councillors ?? Please do, it will take the heat off me! 40 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said: not be a shooter. The second is a Westley Richards that is almost as it was when it came out of the factory in the 1860's. 100 % original colour and untouched. I have a copy of the day book with all its details somewhe Both very nice, lucky you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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