Scottish Boxlocks

[trutta]

Was curious to see if thee were some general knowledge on Scottish Boxlocks?  I recently acquired one marked F.Davie Elgin. I know they were provincial gunsmiths and was curious to see if anyone might know who built it? Any guesses as to what the numbers stamped on the action flats mean? The gun is a spitting image of an Alex Martin game gun. 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Welcome to Pigeon Watch!

[Blackpowder]

Many Scottish boxlocks were part or wholly made in Birmingham

 

Blackpowder

[JJsDad]

The `F` denotes Francis Davie who set up at 68 High Street, Montrose, Forfar circa 1878. He is later shown as being at 10 High Street, Montrose from 1883. He subsequently moved to 157 High Street, Elgin c1890 to 1940. No records exist after this later date. No profession is shown against his name, such as: manufacturer, barrel maker, stocker etc which would indicate he bought guns in from the trade either to finish himself or totally finished guns to put out under his name.   No record of serial numbers appears to exist. As your gun bears the Elgin address it would date it between 1890 - 1940. If the number on the action flats is different from the serial number I would suggest it existed to track the action through the various stages of manufacture before it came together as a complete gun and was allocated a serial number.

With no visible indication it is virtually impossible to say now who actually made it, however it bears all the hall marks of the budget end boxlocks produced in quantity by the Birmingham gun trade between the wars.

Trust this helps.

JJsDad

[trutta]

Thanks guys! I am familiar with American manufacturers where even trade guns are easy to identify the maker by certain characteristics. The British gun trade is absolutely fascinating.  There is a number 427 on the short rib under the barrels. Wasn't sure what the 80 25 was, never seen a serial number split across the flats!  

[billytheghillie]

Think your carpet needs a bit of a hoovering.

[Gunman]

The numbers 80 & 25 were stamped on the action by a Birmingham gunsmith . There were several who used this practice to identify and list guns in the 60's and 70's . 

As many guns did not have numbers on all parts and some not named or the name on the barrel indistinct it was easy for a set of barrels in the blacking shop , where as many as a hundred pair a week went through , to be miss laid or taken by the wrong person from any one of the then dozens of workshops .

Even a small workshop might have had up to 50 guns in various stages of completeness in at any one time .

The practice was stopped after complaints from owners that the marks "disfigured" good quality guns although most people hardly noticed.

In this instance I would guess it was the company that did the sleeving work .

As to the rest a typical Birmingham built Non ejector A & D filed up in the "Scottish "style .

[Gunman]

Above the .729" on the right barrel there is what looks like the original proof date stamp . Not clear in the photo but may give you a date .

[alan123shooting]

If the letters HB and no 1 in the circle below the.720. Is most likely the date mark when it was sleeved 1982  any idea as to letter in the date  mark, mentioned by Gunman ?

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by alan123shooting

[panoma1]

Yes HB is the date stamp for 1982 and the No 1 is the rank of the viewer i.e, the senior examiner! Higher numbers denotes more junior examiners....

[trutta]

yes 37/38 was the original year it was proofed, and 82 reproofed. my safe is in the dogs room, a house without dog hair everywhere is void of happiness! The weims dont shed, but the EP's holy cow!The serial number is actually 4271 no prefixes, thought it may have been Osborne made but the numbers dont match the time it was proofed. Thanks everyone for your help! 

Edited November 2, 2018 by trutta