Head and Shoulders

[jon0881]

I had my mate over last nigh who is a royal marine, green beret thingy. We got talking about shooting etc and i shown him my gear i got from army surplus. I said im missing a scrim or cover for my face and he said 'why dont i make some head and shoulders?'

 

From his explanation it briefly consists of a jungle/bush camo hat (cut up all round), a scrim that you hang over the top and sew into the hat, some bits of cut up sandbags sewn into the scrim and some rubber bands tied through for twigs etc

 

He says all the marine snipers make their own head and shoulders and nothing else comes close.

 

Does anyone else use something simmilar or just buy something?

[ROBLATCH]

i just use a cap i bought with full face srim which was already attatched, it does the job for me

[Lancs Lad]

All army special ops units make there own guilly sutes for c.o.p. (close observation patrol) the only thing is the weight they are heavy dry and when wet double or treble the weight :look: you try tabbing out when you get bumped in one the ready made ones are light quiet and water proof get the yetty one from TOPKIT £120

THATS ALL YOU NEED

 

 

Nowt worse than getting bumped...............................ahhhhh.....its all comming back.................................ERV ERV ERV....

 

 

Head and shoulders, easy enough..........wide brim bush hat.................scrim,,,,,,,,,and then get tying on...................

[Cranfield]

It surprises me how many decoyers don't bother with any sort of face, or hand cover.

[pin]

Depends on how you shoot Cranfield. If you build a hide the right height and actually stay below, close to and look through it you don't need to

 

On the other hand if you bounce about like a spaniel in there and keep poking your head up all the time, you want a face mask, covered arms and hands and a good hat

[Cranfield]

Depends on how you shoot Cranfield. If you build a hide the right height and actually stay below, close to and look through it you don't need to

 

On the other hand if you bounce about like a spaniel in there and keep poking your head up all the time, you want a face mask, covered arms and hands and a good hat

 

Each to their own, if it works for you thats fine.

 

I normally build a hide so the front is just below eye level when I am sitting down (I usually shoot sitting down).

The back is higher and the sides slope forward.

The density of my cammo net, which is ex MOD, plus some extra scrim and usually, a bit of local herbage laid on, makes the view looking through obstructed in some areas.

This means I peer over the top , which requires very little movement.

The face net and gloves mean I can't be seen.

 

Also, when I take a shot, high birds and birds in the distance don't see the flash of my white hands and face over the net.

[pavman]

[pin]

Absolutely, I have shot with people who like a standing position rather than sitting and that also works very well.

 

It would be a boring world if we all did the same thing

[Whitebridges]

Face and hand cover are a must IMO.

[hawkeye]

Well been out with Kdubya decoying today neither of us wore a mask or gloves,

 

The hide was stealth netting from UK shootwarehouse

 

We were both in short sleeved shirts if fact Kdubya was in a white shirt and we still shot 100 birds

 

its not the colour that counts its movement, stay still and they will still come in.... :o

[ldh]

Well been out with Kdubya decoying today neither of us wore a mask or gloves,

 

The hide was stealth netting from UK shootwarehouse

 

We were both in short sleeved shirts if fact Kdubya was in a white shirt and we still shot 100 birds

 

its not the colour that counts its movement, stay still and they will still come in.... :o

what about camoflarging for your rifles, does anyone do this and what methods do you find effective

lee

[dusk2dawn]

Well been out with Kdubya decoying today neither of us wore a mask or gloves,

 

The hide was stealth netting from UK shootwarehouse

 

We were both in short sleeved shirts if fact Kdubya was in a white shirt and we still shot 100 birds

 

its not the colour that counts its movement, stay still and they will still come in.... :o

 

 

I have read in several books on decoying that pigeon can see only in black and white, so its movement that gives us away.

It would make little difference therefore if a desert pattern camo was worn in the height of summer as long as it had a disruptive pattern to break up the body outline. And covered our big white faces

 

Cranfields hide building technique is also mentioned many times in most of the best books on the subject, notably Archie Coates who always shot from a sitting position due to disablement. For younger members, this guy is acknowledged as an all time expert and shot pigeon for many years using crutches to get out on the field. His book contains almost all the tips and tricks needed to get started. (£6 - £10 on Fleabay.)

 

D2D

[Newbie]

Hi all,

I'm new to shooting and by comparison, no doubt I'm rubbish. But this bit is something I DO know about!

*puts on Science teachers hat* (No really, I was one for 10 years!)

 

Pigeonvision!

Lots of animals see in 'monochrome'. Its not black and white as such. Calling it black and white or assuming they have black and white vision is just an easy way for us humans to explain it to ourselves. Its very hard to imagine how animals 'see'. Try to imagine how a bat makes a visual picture of the world with echo sensory parts of its brain. Its virtually impossible because we don't have the same areas in our brain.

 

Pigeons have monochrome vision. Being prey animals with eyes on the sides they also have very sharp peripheral vision which means that they see a much wider sharp image than predators (eyes on front).

Its the sharp vision bit which detects shades. The peripheral vision detects motion but not 'colour'.

Try this one.......

Stare at a fixed point accross the room. A poster with lettering on it is good.

Without moving your eyes.....

First you'll notice that your sharp vision is only about an inch round. You can read the letter you're staring at but not more than one or two either side.

How wide an angle can you actually see in colour? Though you can discern colour infront of you and to the sides of your sharp vision, you can probably pick out light and dark areas but not actually colour at around 140 - 180 degrees. That bit of the human visual area is monochrome just like a pigeon's vision. Not black and white but rather shades without actual colour.

 

Now try this.....

Stare ahead again and put your arms out at 180 degrees (straight out to the sides).

Can you see your fingers? If you can see them, just move your arms back until they fade from view.

Now wiggle them fingers! You can detect the movement.

 

 

All of this means that if you dress in a similar shade to your surroundings you are less likely to be detected by the pigeon's peripheral vision. In the field however you aren't surrounded by a single shade, you are surrounded by many shades so we try to make camo clothing mottled like our background.

If you wear a single shade you have a defined outline and the pigeon is likely to identify you IF it's looking in your general direction and you're in its 'sharp vision'. If you move around, the pigeon will detect your movement in its peripheral vision (just like you wiggling your fingers at the side), look in your direction and see your defined outline because its a different shade to the surroundings. If you wear DPM you match your surroundings better and have a better chance.

If however you wear a single shade and stay still, the pigeon will only see you if it HAPPENS to look you way.

Staying still is therefore the key issue here.

Blending in helps if they look your way.

 

Sorry for the long post.

Sorry for the lecture.

 

N

[kdubya]

I would love to know how these "scientists" know that a pigeon sees in monochrome etc unless they have hold of a talking pigeon? and then how does the pigeon know whats black? it might think its blue?

all speculation and cobblers me thinks, after all are we not told a bumble bee cant / should not be able to fly, and did these "experts not have the head of a dinosaur stuck on its harris for many years until they "twigged" the other end was were its head should go?

cheers KW

[berettaman1]

I cant speak for everyone but I find a boonie hat with scrim sewn or tied on with bits of the local fauna tied on, plus cammo gloves and jacket seems to find favour with my wife who tells me its a great improvement over my normal everyday looks! But not everyone approves as we were chucked out of the local mothercare store today as my apearance did not go down too well with the staff and faint hearted shoppers.!! :However the very best bit of kit I had was purchased for me from my youngest daughter when she and her husband returned from America this year, It was the latest ex U S sniper Ghillie suit which was called the stealth suit, totally amazing, however I,in a moment of madness took off the said garment when in our garden and due to its wonderfull design made it instantly invisible!! and we cant see where it is!! P S, yes youve guessed it , I am pi---d up again. cheers everybody!!

[berettaman1]

pressed button twice by mistake.

[Newbie]

Kbubya

 

You're right. Science knows ****** all.

How could I have been so foolish.

Its just that when you take a pigeon's eyes apart there aren't the bits inside that detect colour. Nor have cows eyes but pigs do so I assume pigs can see colour but cows cant and neither can pigeons.

It is a total assumption on my part. Kind of like assuming a dog can't tie shoelaces on the grounds that it doesn't have thumbs.

 

But what the hell do I know? I'm just a newbie.

You're experienced enough to know what works and what doesn't. Surely you can't be claiming that dpm kit doesn't do anything?

 

I do need a pair of gloves and some scrim though. Do you want to sell your kit?

 

N

[Newbie]

Just out of interest I bought a £3 green mozzie head net to go over a bush hat from my local Army and Navy, stitched a few bits of different coloured scrim to dangle from it and I can sit in the field while rabbits and squirrels come to my feet. I've been doing it for years and years. Its only recently I've had a gun with me.

 

I wear standard british dpm and stay very still.

 

I also rub nettles all over my kit if I'm ambushing rather than stalking.

Yes....stinging nettles. They're very pungent and natural so they're good at covering the smell of humans.

I discovered them when I asked an old suffolk boy about top tips for catching moles. He said never touch traps or the mole runs without wearing a pair of gloves rubbed with nettles. It worked for moles and it works with rabbit ambush.

 

N