Spaniel training dvd or books

[picardy]

Hi all looking for some advice,  looking for my first gun dog in the future thinking of a springer spaniel and not one to rush into things ,so I'm looking for advice regarding training dvds or books to buy to help me along the way . Thanks for looking 

Edited February 9, 2019 by picardy

[Lloyd90]

What dog do you want to get?  

 

One big thing I would advise is get the type of dog suited to the shooting or the job you want it to do! 

The type of dog will dictate what type of book or dvd you need, although the biggest help I've had so far is getting some advice from other experienced trainers / 1:1 lessons  

[picardy]

Looking at a springer spaniel which i think would be best  as most of my shooting is rough / walked up so need a dog to get into cover and flush birds , looking at various dogs which have been on our shoot mainly cockers and springer are used which seem to really do the job ,one fella has a beautiful working lab which is great at retriving but doesn't get into the cover and seems to get a bit tried later on in the day ,hope that helps 

[B725]

Get yourself a well bred springer and if it's trained correctly you won't look back 

[Lloyd90]

43 minutes ago, picardy said:

Looking at a springer spaniel which i think would be best  as most of my shooting is rough / walked up so need a dog to get into cover and flush birds , looking at various dogs which have been on our shoot mainly cockers and springer are used which seem to really do the job ,one fella has a beautiful working lab which is great at retriving but doesn't get into the cover and seems to get a bit tried later on in the day ,hope that helps 

Do you want to trial or not at all?

Just found out today a friend of mine has a litter of springers due first week of March although may be all spoken for as top lines. 

Not silly money despite breeding. 

 

[picardy]

Not really sure about the trailing side of things but may possibly have a go ,if you get chance can you pm me the details of the pups please, many thanks 

[Yellow Bear]

If you are not a dog snob do not discount working sprokers  -  Jdog will probably agree

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, picardy said:

Not really sure about the trailing side of things but may possibly have a go ,if you get chance can you pm me the details of the pups please, many thanks 

I'll be going up to see them once born and few weeks old I will enquire for you mate  

 

Tell us a bit about your training history etc ?

 

There will be some working tests over the summer, get along to some and help out if you can you get to see all the dogs working and see what a good dog can do if you put the work in! 

Just now, Yellow Bear said:

If you are not a dog snob do not discount working sprokers  -  Jdog will probably agree

 

Some brilliant workers sprockers about, just make sure your not over-paying. Think the bloke selling those trial pups said they will be around £650. 

 

Saw a litter of sprockers on FB recently £750/800! An theres less cost involved as you don't have to register them with KC and all that stuff. 

People seem to report paying between £200-800 for sprockers, some people are asking for silly money. 

 

To the OP - if you want to do working tests and trials, then you need to get a KC registered dog, likely a springer if your a relative novice. 

[picardy]

Thanks for the reply , I haven't got any experience training gundogs as I've had working lurcher for many years which I've trained to a good standard I also had a border terrier for 13 years which I would use for beating and pigeon shooting he would also retrive shot pheasents/ pigeons and ducks from of the water but he sadly died last spring , I've been rough shooting for around 6years and love watching the gun dogs on our small diy shoot work which are mainly cockers but I really like the springers .

[scotslad]

I would imagine DVD's will be the modern way nowadays.

I'd also reccommend training or helping with a group or if a local trainer does demo days or if u can train with a mate who actually knows wot there doing.

While books/dvds are great they don't sho u all the mistakes u'l likely make and how to fox them or even stop them forming, that's why i enjoyed training as a group as u can watch others problems and how to fix them so if/when u encounter the same problem u have a beter idea how to deal with it

 

If ur just after a working dog it won't really matter wether a lab or spaniel book/dvd, all the basics are the same anyway.. I train all my dogs the same way wether spaniel or lab as i expect to do much the same jobs wethr beating or picking up

To be honest i'd actually be wary of some spaniel orientated books, not because anything wrong with them but the better triners are usually FT focussed so focusses far more on hunting which is not a bad thing, but sometimes at the expense of heel work. And u also need to have the experience to know whe to reel the dog back in before it goes wild.

For just a working level dog i'd actually train more like a lab, less focus on hunting and more on heel work, a dog that pulls like a train on the lead is just a pita for a shooting dog no matter how hard it hunts

 

I'd also not entirely discount labs, i've never had a probelm with working labs entering cover, if a dog of any bred won't enter cover not worth having esp if scent/birds in there

I've seen my labs enter cover that some poor spaniels turn up thier nose at.  Just about getting a proper working line with a decent heavy coat and just encourage them into cover as pups and get cover heavier and heavier.

[Remimax]

plenty of good springer training vids on youtube search Chris Upton,shame he's so far away from me .

i like his no bull**** approach.

[Lloyd90]

11 hours ago, Remimax said:

plenty of good springer training vids on youtube search Chris Upton,shame he's so far away from me .

i like his no ******** approach.

He’s very tough on dogs, was criticised in the press for hitting his dogs in videos. 

He complains in one video that modern dogs are too soft and can’t take “correcting” and some of the lads that I spoke with who’ve been to him for training said he’s much worse in person than in the videos. 

 

 

[Remimax]

6 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

He’s very tough on dogs, was criticised in the press for hitting his dogs in videos. 

He complains in one video that modern dogs are too soft and can’t take “correcting” and some of the lads that I spoke with who’ve been to him for training said he’s much worse in person than in the videos. 

 

 

if you can train a gundog with hugs and treats then good on ya .

[bigbird]

6 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

He’s very tough on dogs, was criticised in the press for hitting his dogs in videos. 

He complains in one video that modern dogs are too soft and can’t take “correcting” and some of the lads that I spoke with who’ve been to him for training said he’s much worse in person than in the videos. 

 

 

Same. His videos make for uncomfortable viewing

[Lloyd90]

39 minutes ago, Remimax said:

if you can train a gundog with hugs and treats then good on ya .

If you can’t train a gundog without beating it then you don’t deserve to own a dog. 

 

My dogs my friend, I don’t want to kick his head in. 

40 minutes ago, Remimax said:

if you can train a gundog with hugs and treats then good on ya .

Too right! He does lots of things that put faults into the dog, then comes down harsh on them later on with tough handling and complains if the dog can’t take it. 

[ilovemyheckler]

2nd Chris Upton.

I have watched loads of his stuff on youtube

DVD - I would recommend David Lisett

Books - Joe Irving's book The Learning Chain

That said a good local trainer who does one2one and group lessons would prove invaluable

 

Best of all use all the above

[bigbird]

5 minutes ago, ilovemyheckler said:

2nd Chris Upton.

I have watched loads of his stuff on youtube

DVD - I would recommend David Lisett

Books - Joe Irving's book The Learning Chain

That said a good local trainer who does one2one and group lessons would prove invaluable

 

Best of all use all the above

All of the above bar Chris Upton 👍

[B725]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

If you can’t train a gundog without beating it then you don’t deserve to own a dog. 

 

My dogs my friend, I don’t want to kick his head in. 

Too right! He does lots of things that put faults into the dog, then comes down harsh on them later on with tough handling and complains if the dog can’t take it. 

I'm with Lloyd with this, Stan my springer is the softest dog l have known he don't even like you raising your voice. If you were to be hard with himI think he would withdraw and not do anything, apart from a few grumbles at him that's all I've had to do but he will go through any cover no matter how thick it is and it never fazes him. 

BB you need to stop washing them pots and stuff and spend a bit more time on here 😂

[bigbird]

21 minutes ago, B725 said:

I'm with Lloyd with this, Stan my springer is the softest dog l have known he don't even like you raising your voice. If you were to be hard with himI think he would withdraw and not do anything, apart from a few grumbles at him that's all I've had to do but he will go through any cover no matter how thick it is and it never fazes him. 

BB you need to stop washing them pots and stuff and spend a bit more time on here 😂

😂😂😂 just a bit more to do then I’m getting into the dogs again 😉x

When I’m not pandering to the will of my kids that is 🙄🙄😂

Edited February 11, 2019 by bigbird

[scotslad]

Has there not been a lot of resignations at the KC and FTing committee over its attitude to training/correction??

 

I don't know that chris upton or watch much utube training videos (any idiot can post 1 up, not a place i'd use as a trainng source for beginners, might be OK when u can seperate the BS form the good) and i have to say the famous clip didn't look good for Upton but it may also have been taken out of context too so i'm not going to judge.

 

I think it really depends on the individual dog, some dogs/breeds will ne virually impossiblre to train by purely positive methods alone.

I use dto shoot with a guide dog trainer and even he was not against physical punishment, but all deopends of the type (more shaking, pinching, scruffing or flipping than actually striking the dog)

 

Must admit not watched them all but if u search back throu this sit the few vids that lee klinsman? used to put on always loked very good to me, well worth a look.