What to do if stopped by the police?

[GingerCat]

38 minutes ago, Dekers said:

If you want to roll over then get on with it, there is no issue in adopting a sensible attitude and asking any officer you are concerned about to get someone better qualified to help him.

You are responsible for your guns, nobody suggested starting a war with the police, but if you have doubts about the competence of an alleged police officer then ask him to get someone who is better qualified.

It is certainly within the power of an officer to ask you to hand over your guns, it is also within your power and rights to refuse if you have concerns!

 

Powers of constables to stop and search.

(1)A constable may require any person whom he has reasonable cause to suspect—

(a)of having a firearm, with or without ammunition, with him in a public place; or

(b)to be committing or about to commit, elsewhere than in a public place, an offence relevant for the purposes of this section,

to hand over the firearm or any ammunition for examination by the constable.

(2)It is an offence for a person having a firearm or ammunition with him to fail to hand it over when required to do so by a constable under subsection (1) of this section.

(3)If a constable has reasonable cause to suspect a person of having a firearm with him in a public place, or to be committing or about to commit, elsewhere than in a public place, an offence relevant for the purposes of this section, the constable may search that person and may detain him for the purpose of doing so.

(4)If a constable has reasonable cause to suspect that there is a firearm in a vehicle in a public place, or that a vehicle is being or is about to be used in connection with the commission of an offence relevant for the purposes of this section elsewhere than in a public place, he may search the vehicle and for that purpose require the person driving or in control of it to stop it.

(5)For the purpose of exercising the powers conferred by this section a constable may enter any place.

(6)The offences relevant for the purpose of this section are those under sections 18(1) and (2) and 20 of this Act.

 

 

48Production of certificates.

(1)A constable may demand, from any person whom he believes to be in possession of a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of this Act applies, or of a shot gun, the production of his firearm certificate or, as the case may be, his shot gun certificate.

F1[(1A)Where a person upon whom a demand has been made by a constable under subsection (1) above and whom the constable believes to be in possession of a firearm fails—

(a)to produce a firearm certificate or, as the case may be, a shot gun certificate;

(b)to show that he is a person who, by reason of his place of residence or any other circumstances, is not entitled to be issued with a document identifying that firearm under any of the provisions which in the other member States correspond to the provisions of this Act for the issue of European firearms passes; or

(c)to show that he is in possession of the firearm exclusively in connection with the carrying on of activities in respect of which, he or the person on whose behalf he has possession of the firearm, is recognised, for the purposes of the law of another member State relating to firearms, as a collector of firearms or a body concerned in the cultural or historical aspects of weapons,

the constable may demand from that person the production of a document which has been issued to that person in another member State under any such corresponding provisions, identifies that firearm as a firearm to which it relates and is for the time being valid.]

(2)If a person upon whom a demand is made under this section fails to produce the certificate [F2or document] or to permit the constable to read it, or to show that he is entitled by virtue of this Act to have the firearm, ammunition or shot gun in his possession without holding a certificate, the constable may seize and detain the firearm, ammunition or shot gun and may require the person to declare to him immediately his name and address.

(3)If under this section a person is required to declare to a consta ble his name and address, it is an offence for him to refuse to declare it or to fail to give his true name and address.

F3[(4)It is an offence for a person who is in possession of a firearm to fail to comply with a demand under subsection (1A) above.]

 

it's not within your rights to not hand it over. You commit an offence under the firearms act. 

no where in the act does it make mention of an afo and neither does it say you can refuse "if you have concerns". 

it does not mention sgc or fac,  nearly that they suspect you have one in your possession. Possession is a whole other topic and does not  necessarily mean physically on your person. 

I'd recommend all read the firearms act and amendments before offering advice on what you can or can't do. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by GingerCat

[Dekers]

22 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

Powers of constables to stop and search.

 

(1)A constable may require any person whom he has reasonable cause to suspect—

 

(a)of having a firearm, with or without ammunition, with him in a public place; or

 

(b)to be committing or about to commit, elsewhere than in a public place, an offence relevant for the purposes of this section,

to hand over the firearm or any ammunition for examination by the constable.

 

(2)It is an offence for a person having a firearm or ammunition with him to fail to hand it over when required to do so by a constable under subsection (1) of this section.

 

(3)If a constable has reasonable cause to suspect a person of having a firearm with him in a public place, or to be committing or about to commit, elsewhere than in a public place, an offence relevant for the purposes of this section, the constable may search that person and may detain him for the purpose of doing so.

 

(4)If a constable has reasonable cause to suspect that there is a firearm in a vehicle in a public place, or that a vehicle is being or is about to be used in connection with the commission of an offence relevant for the purposes of this section elsewhere than in a public place, he may search the vehicle and for that purpose require the person driving or in control of it to stop it.

 

(5)For the purpose of exercising the powers conferred by this section a constable may enter any place.

 

(6)The offences relevant for the purpose of this section are those under sections 18(1) and (2) and 20 of this Act.

 

 

48Production of certificates.

(1)A constable may demand, from any person whom he believes to be in possession of a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of this Act applies, or of a shot gun, the production of his firearm certificate or, as the case may be, his shot gun certificate.

F1[(1A)Where a person upon whom a demand has been made by a constable under subsection (1) above and whom the constable believes to be in possession of a firearm fails—

(a)to produce a firearm certificate or, as the case may be, a shot gun certificate;

(b)to show that he is a person who, by reason of his place of residence or any other circumstances, is not entitled to be issued with a document identifying that firearm under any of the provisions which in the other member States correspond to the provisions of this Act for the issue of European firearms passes; or

(c)to show that he is in possession of the firearm exclusively in connection with the carrying on of activities in respect of which, he or the person on whose behalf he has possession of the firearm, is recognised, for the purposes of the law of another member State relating to firearms, as a collector of firearms or a body concerned in the cultural or historical aspects of weapons,

the constable may demand from that person the production of a document which has been issued to that person in another member State under any such corresponding provisions, identifies that firearm as a firearm to which it relates and is for the time being valid.]

(2)If a person upon whom a demand is made under this section fails to produce the certificate [F2or document] or to permit the constable to read it, or to show that he is entitled by virtue of this Act to have the firearm, ammunition or shot gun in his possession without holding a certificate, the constable may seize and detain the firearm, ammunition or shot gun and may require the person to declare to him immediately his name and address.

(3)If under this section a person is required to declare to a consta ble his name and address, it is an offence for him to refuse to declare it or to fail to give his true name and address.

F3[(4)It is an offence for a person who is in possession of a firearm to fail to comply with a demand under subsection (1A) above.]

 

it's not within your rights to not hand it over. You commit an offence under the firearms act. 

no where in the act does it make mention of an afo and neither does it say you can refuse "if you have concerns". 

it does not mention sgc or fac,  nearly that they suspect you have one in your possession. Possession is a whole other topic and does not  necessarily mean physically on your person. 

I'd recommend all read the firearms act and amendments before offering advice on what you can or can't do. 

I'd recommend you read my posts before launching off on one.

Firearms security is YOUR responsibility and nowhere have I said you refuse to hand over your gun to the police!

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Dekers

[GingerCat]

1 hour ago, Dekers said:

 

It is certainly within the power of an officer to ask you to hand over your guns, it is also within your power and rights to refuse if you have concerns!

 

I'm not launching off on one but I do worry when some people take advice off here rather than read the law. 

[ordnance]

Quote

It is certainly within the power of an officer to ask you to hand over your guns, it is also within your power and rights to refuse if you have concerns!

Yes you can refuse, and they can arrest you for refusing. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by ordnance

[Dekers]

Crumbs guys, read my posts, don't take a line out of context!

I work with the police, probably 80-90% of my time with them I'm  DISCHARGING firearms, they are generally very sensible and also generally very ignorant with regards firearms, as I've already said, many don't have a clue what a FAC (or SGC) looks like. The vast majority I work with I wouldn't let anywhere near my guns and we get on just fine!

It is easy to talk to them and ask them to get assistance if you think they are not competent, that doesn't mean starting a war with them and it doesn't mean you are refusing to hand your guns over to the police, it is your responsibility to ensure the safety of your guns.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Dekers

[GingerCat]

Deckers,  the point I'm making is this - it's not within your rights to refuse if you think they are not competent.. competency doesn't come into it, just that A constable has made the request. 

The law maybe an *** but it is the law. People will read your posts and at 2am on a wet morning may decide to argue the toss and get arrested for it, maybe lose there cert or fac as a result. 

The majority of people don't tend to read the law as the recent pigeon shooting ban proved and the ignorance of those that really should know better was only too apparent, often carrying on as that's what their mate said or they read on a forum or even worse, that's what they've always done. 

The last time I wanted a firearms officer (to check) a make safe it took 2 days. Yes 2 days. There's few of them and they are very busy. Outside of a city there a even less and spread thin. 

If nothings going on then maybe 40 minutes would be a better average. 

 I'm not waiting 40 minutes as you dont feel comfortable that I'm "competent". Neither am i explaning my training in firearms handing when you decide not to let me inspect the gun that's quite probably in your hands at the time.  Sorry but that's the way it is. I like to go home each day minus any holes that shouldn't be there. 

From the police I know (quite a few now) I'd say it's the exception rather than the norm if they don't know how to make safe or what an sgc/fac looks like. It's not like they don't do it weekly. Be it dealing with arrested fac/sgc holders, revocations etc.

What I can almost guarantee however is if someone decides not to play ball they may make the decision for you and with the the law  worded the way it is It's simply not worth it.

Everything is captured on camera these days and there will be no denying you refused or were otherwise falling below the standard expected "Fit and proper person". 

Hence my post (not aimed at you btw as it's clear your a pest controller and have a working knowldege) to actually read it. 

[Westley]

21 hours ago, bluesj said:

You would waste more than an hour of shooting time if you ring the 101 number around here!

I have the number for a direct line to the control room.  They too appreciate the call to cut down possible waste of their time.

[ordnance]

As for the complacency of the officer handle firearms, that should not be a issue as any component / responsible firearms owner would check and clear their firearm before handing it to anyone including police. I had to take a firearm to the police station to be sent for a ballistic test, the duty Sargent would not take control of the firearm before i cleared it at the stations unloading bay, as it should be. 

[Houseplant]

My dad and I were walking back to the car after a day's pigeon shooting in the UK. We were carrying our shotguns. There were two policemen waiting for us at the car. Their first question was "have you been fishing?". Obviously not the brightest members of the constabulary, but friendly enough. When we explained what we doing, they were fine.

[Ozz]

I was sat at the entrance to one of my perms not to long ago haveing 5 with the window down enjoying a rollup sipping on a brew from the flask (the last brew) then as me an my pal was chattin about how good the evning buny hunt had gone and the odd bit of politics ect   a set of bright headlamps pulled up behind me quite fast and to be hinest gave us a but of a jump .it was the local plod  cjumed out the car with torches in hand .instantly asked what we was up to and do we have anything in the car we shouldnt have ?? I replyed no evrything in here is legal and were allowed to have them ."allowed to have what they asked"?? I replied the 2 shotguns and the .22 rifle locked in the boot  then handed him my licence . The next 15 to 20 min was quite plesant and they asked a few questions mainly about our night  didnt ask to see the guns and told us he will make a mental note of my car so they wont  bother us agaun if they see it there again (they had seen it 3 times before but empty and locked up) when i go shooting my licence is kept in reach at all times  iv had a few encounters over the years all have neen plesant .i let them say there bit then hand them my licence .they seem to like this 

[The Burpster]

12 hours ago, GingerCat said:

Deckers,  the point I'm making is this - it's not within your rights to refuse if you think they are not competent.. competency doesn't come into it, just that A constable has made the request. 

The law maybe an *** but it is the law. People will read your posts and at 2am on a wet morning may decide to argue the toss and get arrested for it, maybe lose there cert or fac as a result. 

The majority of people don't tend to read the law as the recent pigeon shooting ban proved and the ignorance of those that really should know better was only too apparent, often carrying on as that's what their mate said or they read on a forum or even worse, that's what they've always done. 

The last time I wanted a firearms officer (to check) a make safe it took 2 days. Yes 2 days. There's few of them and they are very busy. Outside of a city there a even less and spread thin. 

If nothings going on then maybe 40 minutes would be a better average. 

 I'm not waiting 40 minutes as you dont feel comfortable that I'm "competent". Neither am i explaning my training in firearms handing when you decide not to let me inspect the gun that's quite probably in your hands at the time.  Sorry but that's the way it is. I like to go home each day minus any holes that shouldn't be there. 

From the police I know (quite a few now) I'd say it's the exception rather than the norm if they don't know how to make safe or what an sgc/fac looks like. It's not like they don't do it weekly. Be it dealing with arrested fac/sgc holders, revocations etc.

What I can almost guarantee however is if someone decides not to play ball they may make the decision for you and with the the law  worded the way it is It's simply not worth it.

Everything is captured on camera these days and there will be no denying you refused or were otherwise falling below the standard expected "Fit and proper person". 

Hence my post (not aimed at you btw as it's clear your a pest controller and have a working knowldege) to actually read it. 

There you go again, quoting current policy and reality.... be careful it may become a habit! 😉

 

Spot-on post BTW...👍

Edited August 12, 2019 by The Burpster
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