Are the Brexit party far right?

[Raja Clavata]

I reckon he was getting his martyrdom one way or the other regardless.

Hands up anyone who’d have fancied his trial being held anywhere near where they live?

[Kalahari]

23 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Where do we start with that?

Which other mainstream political party leader isn't standing in the GE?

Well, Nicola Sturgeon isn't.

 

David.

[henry d]

Back to the brexit party....

So Nige was joking when he said there would be a manifesto; Ha ha Nige you wag, we believed you! Yet from their website...

Quote

We’re out to challenge the self-serving two-party system, make the people sovereign, and restore trust in our democracy.

However I was having  read of a few other websites and found this very interesting, and alarming...

Quote

The Fascist State ... is a people's state, and, as such, the democratic State par excellence.

Which came from the American Blackshirts website, so perhaps we need to reassess what the Brexit party actually is.

It gets even more scary when you read the final para.

Quote

Hence the need of the Party, and of all the instruments of propaganda and education which Fascism uses to make the thought and will of the Duce ** the thought and will of the masses. Hence, the enormous task which Fascism sets itself in trying to bring the whole mass of the people, beginning with the little children, inside the fold of the Party.

**{The leader, from the Italian; Il Duce and was used by Mussolini}

[Rewulf]

36 minutes ago, henry d said:

We’re out to challenge the self-serving two-party system, make the people sovereign, and restore trust in our democracy

How do you convert that^? 

Into that? >

37 minutes ago, henry d said:

The Fascist State ... is a people's state, and, as such, the democratic State par excellence

Do you not want a democratic state, or do you seriously believe democracy ends up with fascism? 

I don't understand what you're trying to say. 

[Raja Clavata]

This is kind of back to the point about whether or not Brexit, and indeed the Brexit Party, is the thin end of the wedge.

[Scully]

33 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

This is kind of back to the point about whether or not Brexit, and indeed the Brexit Party, is the thin end of the wedge.

It’s interesting how we perceive things differently. You see, I regard an unaccountable and unelected authoritative and legislative body of people as the thin end of the wedge. 

[henry d]

10 minutes ago, Scully said:

It’s interesting how we perceive things differently. You see, I regard an unaccountable and unelected authoritative and legislative body of people as the thin end of the wedge. 

But surely any political/national body is just a social construct from the imaginings of men

[Rewulf]

47 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

This is kind of back to the point about whether or not Brexit, and indeed the Brexit Party, is the thin end of the wedge.

The thin end of the wedge of what? 

If the people vote for something in majority, but the minority think it extreme, does that mean the vote was invalid? 

I suppose it depends where you stand, if you think like your average momentum supporter, then anything right of, up to and including Tony Blair is 'far' right and invalid politics. 

There are people I know personally who think farage is an actual nazi. 

Which I think a little bizarre. 

2 minutes ago, henry d said:

But surely any political/national body is just a social construct from the imaginings of men

Very sexist, disappointed in you henry 🤣

[Raja Clavata]

31 minutes ago, Scully said:

It’s interesting how we perceive things differently. You see, I regard an unaccountable and unelected authoritative and legislative body of people as the thin end of the wedge. 

Different wedges?

[Raja Clavata]

15 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

The thin end of the wedge of what? 

Something darker and more sinister

If the people vote for something in majority, but the minority think it extreme, does that mean the vote was invalid? 

No, of course not, but it also doesn't necessarily mean that the majority are "right" in the big scheme of things. How extreme does a decision arrived at by a majority need to be before people question it?

I suppose it depends where you stand, if you think like your average momentum supporter, then anything right of, up to and including Tony Blair is 'far' right and invalid politics. 

I've already stated my position on where the Brexit Party currently sit on the spectrum, I was not referring to that but more about what the overall end game is, or might be. I certainly don't know, do you?

Which I think a little bizarre. 

And I agree with you.

 

[henry d]

Something darker and more sinister

To be honest, fascism came about by extraordinary means and during extraordinary times, and I don't think that we are in times (quite) like those and fascism has already been released on the world, some seem to want to return to the 1920-30's and I wonder if some would like to adapt some of it to their own purposes? Dark and sinister indeed are all forms of extremism, why can't we seem to learn from the past and make the world a better place for everyone?

[grrclark]

5 minutes ago, henry d said:

Something darker and more sinister

To be honest, fascism came about by extraordinary means and during extraordinary times, and I don't think that we are in times (quite) like those and fascism has already been released on the world, some seem to want to return to the 1920-30's and I wonder if some would like to adapt some of it to their own purposes? Dark and sinister indeed are all forms of extremism, why can't we seem to learn from the past and make the world a better place for everyone?

Because human nature at it’s core is relatively unchanging.  We benefit from education and hope those that can exhibit both reason and restraint hold the levers of power, but fundamentally if a rocket is at the wheel then we are in trouble.

The evidence of this is not in short supply.

[henry d]

Yeah I was kind of thinking out loud.

"I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened; what is lacking cannot be counted. "

[Raja Clavata]

30 minutes ago, henry d said:

"I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened; what is lacking cannot be counted. "

That sounds like a bit of KS to me?

[grrclark]

29 minutes ago, henry d said:

Yeah I was kind of thinking out loud.

"I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened; what is lacking cannot be counted. "

Careful, philosophical thinking out loud will have you branded even more, if possible, as the diabolical malevolent liberal!

[Scully]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

But surely any political/national body is just a social construct from the imaginings of men

Nice one Henry! 😉 A bit like Nazism? Its not imaginary when it has an effect on your life. 

[henry d]

46 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

That sounds like a bit of KS to me?

Can't beat a bit of eccles!

45 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Careful, philosophical thinking out loud will have you branded even more, if possible, as the diabolical malevolent liberal!

Hell mend me! 😆

[grrclark]

8 minutes ago, henry d said:

Can't beat a bit of eccles! 

I like eccles cakes.  Much less scriptural, but certainly tastier.

[henry d]

You can only sink your teeth into cakes once, with Qoheleth you can sink your teeth in time and again on something solid.

[oowee]

Every day is a learning day. 

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, henry d said:

and I wonder if some would like to adapt some of it to their own purposes

Antifa, momentum? We already have the antisemitic element 😎

[grrclark]

15 minutes ago, henry d said:

You can only sink your teeth into cakes once, with Qoheleth you can sink your teeth in time and again on something solid.

Now that is deeply profound compared to my shallow confection.  I need to up my game

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

Can't beat a bit of eccles!

Indeed, a beautiful piece.

[Raja Clavata]

Back on topic - I made the comment about something more sinister and darker in reference to the fact that Farage appears to be calling all the shots with the BP which is leading me to wonder if it is a real political party or just a "vehicle" to deliver the Farage agenda (whatever that might eventually turn out to be).

Whilst I am in no way drawing parallels of the far right or nazism I am starting to wonder if there will be a record in future history reflecting on the "appeasement of Farage". 

[Rewulf]

9 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

whatever that might eventually turn out to be

I would imagine the 'agenda' to be some form of Brexit? 😂

 

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

"appeasement of Farage".

A decent Brexit? 

It's hardly the 4th reich is it? 🙄