Holiday during lockdown legality issues.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, mel b3 said:

My own real life experiences,  are that employees  that get treated well by their bosses , are usually quite happy at work , and take very little sick leave (yes you always get the odd lazy mickey taker), but employees that don't get treated so well , are often unhappy at work , and will call in sick for little or no reason , and often just to annoy the boss.

My findings too, it all works both ways!

[Surfer]

Ask to take 2 weeks and defer 1 week until needed , reasonable response could lead to reasonable out come that suits you both 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Surfer
Wrong wording

[walshie]

1 hour ago, Surfer said:

Ask to take 2 weeks and defer 1 week until needed , reasonable response could lead to reasonable out come that suits you both 

Great answer. 👍

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, mel b3 said:

My own real life experiences,  are that employees  that get treated well by their bosses , are usually quite happy at work , and take very little sick leave (yes you always get the odd lazy mickey taker), but employees that don't get treated so well , are often unhappy at work , and will call in sick for little or no reason , and often just to annoy the boss.

Guess it depends where you work. 
 

When I worked in the children’s homes the same staff would be off sick for months at a time over and over. 
 

Being the council they never properly managed it. The good staff had to do extra work, got fed up of it and ended up burning out and leaving.
The homes are now all full of staff who don’t really want to be there, do bare minimum work, are on the old pay scales so they won’t ever leave because they’d get paid significantly less elsewhere and the service is obviously rubbish for everyone involved. 
 

As a casual member of staff on average pay, I regularly used to have to do (or re-do) the managers work because they ended up promoting people into manager posts that couldn’t do the work, and either made a mess of it or couldn’t do it to begin with. 
 

One of the best career decisions I ever made was not to apply for the permanent managers post they were sending over to me and going off in another direction. 

 

[millrace]

In this instance could it be the management know of a reduction in work over next few months and rather than make redundancies,,they are asking staff to take holidays until this period passes therefore protecting not only the company but the employee, for the future,its not like it was time off unpaid,,sometimes the boss knows more than the employee needs to know or worry about,sadly nowadays every buisness decision ceems to involve legalities/cans/cants but as has been said above to many now just work the sickie ,,,which not only hurts the company but more so there work mates who have to make up the slack......

Edited May 23, 2020 by millrace

[mel b3]

7 hours ago, millrace said:

In this instance could it be the management know of a reduction in work over next few months and rather than make redundancies,,they are asking staff to take holidays until this period passes therefore protecting not only the company but the employee, for the future,its not like it was time off unpaid,,sometimes the boss knows more than the employee needs to know or worry about,sadly nowadays every buisness decision ceems to involve legalities/cans/cants but as has been said above to many now just work the sickie ,,,which not only hurts the company but more so there work mates who have to make up the slack......

That would be a perfect example of a poor man manager treating an employee like a fool ,  this then leads to the cans and can'ts and legalities , that can often prove damaging to a businless. A good man manager would explain the situation to the employee , and in turn this would help the employee to understand the issue,  and would more than likely help the employee to feel valued and part of the solution.

Employers and employees need to trust each other , that trust is gained by openness and honesty ,  if a boss treats an employee like a fool , then that employee will often act like a fool.

[mel b3]

7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Guess it depends where you work. 
 

When I worked in the children’s homes the same staff would be off sick for months at a time over and over. 
 

Being the council they never properly managed it. The good staff had to do extra work, got fed up of it and ended up burning out and leaving.
The homes are now all full of staff who don’t really want to be there, do bare minimum work, are on the old pay scales so they won’t ever leave because they’d get paid significantly less elsewhere and the service is obviously rubbish for everyone involved. 
 

As a casual member of staff on average pay, I regularly used to have to do (or re-do) the managers work because they ended up promoting people into manager posts that couldn’t do the work, and either made a mess of it or couldn’t do it to begin with. 
 

One of the best career decisions I ever made was not to apply for the permanent managers post they were sending over to me and going off in another direction. 

 

This is a perfect example of all that is wrong with local authorities.  People are often promoted on length of service , and not skills and ability . The managers are often the laziest shop floor staff , that just fancy the easy ride ,  they have no interest in doing a good job , and have no understanding whatsoever of staff motivation and man management,  this is the beginning of the downhill spiral ,  and we all know the end results.

I had a manager for many years , that was nothing more than a violent and aggressive bully , the police were even called to him on one occasion.  That man never solved a single problem for the local authority,  but he caused thousands of problems ,  I'd guess that over the years , he must have added millions to the local authority sickness bill . He would abuse staff and their only way of retaliation was to go sick , sometimes for months at a time , his managers were very well aware of the situation ( i personally saw one of his managers stand there and do nothing as he tipped his desk over in a rage and smashed two computers ) , his manager did nothing as he is also a ridiculously poor manager , that just didn't know what to do . From time to time , a good manager will appear , but they soon get stifled by the poor managers ,and usually leave.

 

 

[Lloyd90]

6 hours ago, mel b3 said:

This is a perfect example of all that is wrong with local authorities.  People are often promoted on length of service , and not skills and ability . The managers are often the laziest shop floor staff , that just fancy the easy ride ,  they have no interest in doing a good job , and have no understanding whatsoever of staff motivation and man management,  this is the beginning of the downhill spiral ,  and we all know the end results.

I had a manager for many years , that was nothing more than a violent and aggressive bully , the police were even called to him on one occasion.  That man never solved a single problem for the local authority,  but he caused thousands of problems ,  I'd guess that over the years , he must have added millions to the local authority sickness bill . He would abuse staff and their only way of retaliation was to go sick , sometimes for months at a time , his managers were very well aware of the situation ( i personally saw one of his managers stand there and do nothing as he tipped his desk over in a rage and smashed two computers ) , his manager did nothing as he is also a ridiculously poor manager , that just didn't know what to do . From time to time , a good manager will appear , but they soon get stifled by the poor managers ,and usually leave.

 

 

I recently got turned down for an internal promotion. They said they went through my application many times and I had all the criteria's they asked for, apart from enough experience supervising others. I can't supervise others without being in this position I applied for. I said they wanted me to get some more experience (aka I hadn't been around long enough). 

They then gave the job to another woman in my team who had been there the longest. She can't work the full hours because of her kids. She also doesn't have any experience of supervising anyone, and when she gets difficult cases she comes and asks me what to do. I had a student last year and when she found out she wanted one as well, then when they came she couldn't have hers as she was off, so I looked after and sorted out two students. 

 

If they had appointed someone else with lots of experience supervising people fair enough. I knew that's where I fell short in my application. Instead they promote someone else who's going to come and ask me what to do all the time  ... so rather than just sit and take it I found a job elsewhere that pays me more than the team manager gets, without having to do any managers work, get lots of time off (for shooting and dog training) and they are now worried how they will manage as half the staff are off on sickness and loads others have quit and gone elsewhere. Half the team are agency staff but have been there for years because they can't recruit. 

The only downside to my new job is I have to do shifts, but we'll see how it goes, as I go shooting I prefer to have days off during daylight hours as it presents more opportunity. We shall see if it works out and if not I can always come back into another daytime team easily. 

[12gauge82]

7 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

I recently got turned down for an internal promotion. They said they went through my application many times and I had all the criteria's they asked for, apart from enough experience supervising others. I can't supervise others without being in this position I applied for. I said they wanted me to get some more experience (aka I hadn't been around long enough). 

They then gave the job to another woman in my team who had been there the longest. She can't work the full hours because of her kids. She also doesn't have any experience of supervising anyone, and when she gets difficult cases she comes and asks me what to do. I had a student last year and when she found out she wanted one as well, then when they came she couldn't have hers as she was off, so I looked after and sorted out two students. 

 

If they had appointed someone else with lots of experience supervising people fair enough. I knew that's where I fell short in my application. Instead they promote someone else who's going to come and ask me what to do all the time  ... so rather than just sit and take it I found a job elsewhere that pays me more than the team manager gets, without having to do any managers work, get lots of time off (for shooting and dog training) and they are now worried how they will manage as half the staff are off on sickness and loads others have quit and gone elsewhere. Half the team are agency staff but have been there for years because they can't recruit. 

The only downside to my new job is I have to do shifts, but we'll see how it goes, as I go shooting I prefer to have days off during daylight hours as it presents more opportunity. We shall see if it works out and if not I can always come back into another daytime team easily. 

Simple solution, do more lamping 👍😂

[Lloyd90]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

Simple solution, do more lamping 👍😂

That's the plan