HMR ammo

[njc110381]

I've read that the V-Max round often explodes and leaves small bullet fragments in the body of quarry (even if head shot). Is the hollow point round any cleaner, in either the 17 or 20 grain size? I don't like the idea of eating bits of copper jacket! I can't imagine a lack of clean kills being an issue with either bullet with head shots but if you can get runners with any of them, I'd like to know about it

[invector]

The 20 grain round was developed for better penetration and less meat damage. I use them all the time and don't get any runners. The energy just drops rabbits on their backs, without a twitch.

[lurcherboy]

The 20 grain round was developed for better penetration and less meat damage. I use them all the time and don't get any runners. The energy just drops rabbits on their backs, without a twitch.

 

 

Can anyone else confirm this?

 

 

 

LB

[webber]

I only shoot the balistic tips, as I found that the hollow points would not feed correctly in the Anschutz. I have shot many rabbits in the head, mainly for the pot, with no evidense of any meat damage. Correctly placed the bullet drops the rabbit on the spot, the majority simply roll over, dead.

 

webber

[plinker]

i have been using 17g cci hollow points recentley due to lack of availability of hornady b/t and would say that they do cause less damage in general but sometimes they do open mr bunny up like a b/t mostly though they leave an entry/ exit wound similair to a .22.the downside is ,if charlie crosses your path you have to let him go.

 

plinker

[chunk]

The 20 grain round was developed for better penetration and less meat damage. I use them all the time and don't get any runners. The energy just drops rabbits on their backs, without a twitch.

 

 

Can anyone else confirm this?

 

 

 

LB

 

At one point i was using 20gn xtp`s exclusively.Invector is right. They do have these caracteristics. Some people say they are inacurate in their rifles, but i`ve taken some of my best shots with them.

Out to about 100yds they have the same poi as 17gn in my rifle, but they drop off quicker at greater distance. Good for close foxes too as the bullet penetrates deeper and holds its mass.

I tend to buy whatever ammo i can get a good deal on 500, and if this amount is in stock, so have Feds at the mo, but always keep a few 20`s for fox on me.

Big thumbs up

[kip270]

3 grains is hardly going to make any difference at all(has anyone weighed out 3grains, it's not a lot) Bullet placement is the key, and nothing else.

 

Looking at CCI's site, the 17grain HP has a muzzle velocity of 245ftlb and the 20grain is 250ftlb, while out at 100 yards the 17grain drops to 116ftlb while the 20grain FMJ is 140ftlb, then there is the .17grain V-max with a muzzle velocity of 245ftlb and out at 100yards is reportedly 138ftlb

 

As long as you shoot within your capabilities, and not long shots you have never tried on paper, put the bullet in the KILL ZONE

[al4x]

With rabbits I've had different results, the 20 grain hp does tend to go straight through so if you have a shot and are slightly wayward you can get runners, probably don't go so far but the fact they go straight through is why they impart less meat damage because less of the bullets energy remains in the rabbit. With the ballistic tip I've yet to see surface wounds and they simply don't explode on the surface, you get either an entry wound but no exit showing that all the energy has been absorbed by the rabbit or if you do get a messy one you end up with a big chunk of its head missing which to me isn't surface damage.

as for fragments in the body well it can happen but by just taking head shots for the pot shouldn't be very relevant.

 

I've tested the BT's for penetration with a wooden box made of 1/2 inch ply with 6" gaps between the pieces and at 200 yards it was still going through every piece. On the basis that mine shoots the BT's better and the reason I got the gun was for its characteristics regarding ricochets etc I'll be sticking with the BT's

[pin]

I agree with al4x apart from the headshot / meat damage thing.

 

Ok it's rare but I have seen a dozen now where I have hit them clean in the head between 60-100yds and when paunching them there is severe internal damage.

[sandersj89]

I am out tonight for the first time using CCI 20gr. I normally use Remington 17gr Vmax. Will be interesting to see if I notice any differance.

 

Jerry

[invector]

Don't be misled by the "How can 3 grains make any difference" argument. It's not the weight that makes the difference it is hollow point against the ballistic tip. Better penetration and less likely to give a shallow splash wound on Charlie. On broadside shots I often get an exit wound on Charlie, so they are doing their job in the penetration stakes. Rabbits just die, very suddenly and violently. I certainly won't be going back to the 17 grain pills.

[tikkamark]

Don't be misled by the "How can 3 grains make any difference" argument. It's not the weight that makes the difference it is hollow point against the ballistic tip. Better penetration and less likely to give a shallow splash wound on Charlie. On broadside shots I often get an exit wound on Charlie, so they are doing their job in the penetration stakes. Rabbits just die, very suddenly and violently. I certainly won't be going back to the 17 grain pills.

The extra 3 grains makes a lot of difference to such a tiny bullet,the 17gr hollow point is fairly deep and expands fairly rapidly the 20gr's tip is full to the tip of lead it makes the bullet expand a lot slower and more controlled meat damage is not an issue for me as its very easy to put the little bullet onto the bunnys head but the 20grainer comes into its own on the larger critters such as charlie.The 20gr bullets have the exact same poi as the 17gr in my gun which is handy

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

I've read that the V-Max round often explodes and leaves small bullet fragments in the body of quarry (even if head shot). Is the hollow point round any cleaner, in either the 17 or 20 grain size? I don't like the idea of eating bits of copper jacket! I can't imagine a lack of clean kills being an issue with either bullet with head shots but if you can get runners with any of them, I'd like to know about it

 

As far as I am concerned this is absolute cobblers.

 

I've shot literally hundreds of rabbits in the head using 17 Hornady, and providing you hit the rabbit in the right place in the head there is no fragmentation into the body cavity - and I skin all of my rabbits for the butchers and would know otherwise.

 

You have to aim just above the eye of the rabbit, and sometimes this removes the top of the head. Fine.

 

If you aim towards the neck area then this can cause damage extending below the neck.

 

Any decent hmr will give groups of 0.5 - 0.75" groups at 100 yards. Wait 'til the rabbit is positioned with the head side on and that's it - one very dead, headshot rabbit with no body damage.

 

Don

[Dirty Harry]

I use CCI TNT 17grain, CCI Gamepoint 20grain and Federal 17grain. I dont adjust the sights or point of aim and they all seem to knock down the rabbits.

I get gamepoints for £8.75 a box and TNT's for £8.50 so I have been buying gamepoints.

 

I have not noticed any meat damage from headshots.

 

Harry

[sandersj89]

Been out this evening, cruddy night with lots of mist, no wind.

 

Started out with the 20gr hollow points on rabbits, however I soon swapped back to 17gr V-Max.

 

I was hitting with the 20gr hollow points but they are not as accurate in my rifle as the V-Max and I had a couple of rabbits that I hit and then managed to crawl off a few feet to die. The penetration is good, maybe too good??

 

With the V-max I get very good groups and no runners.

 

No chance at a fox as the mist dropped and visabilty was cut dramatically.

 

My current thinking is to stay with the V-Max as my rifle seems to like them but try again with the 20gr hollow point to check the zero and penetration.

 

Jerry

[lurcherboy]

The 20 grain round was developed for better penetration and less meat damage. I use them all the time and don't get any runners. The energy just drops rabbits on their backs, without a twitch.

 

 

Can anyone else confirm this?

 

 

 

LB

 

At one point i was using 20gn xtp`s exclusively.Invector is right. They do have these caracteristics. Some people say they are inacurate in their rifles, but i`ve taken some of my best shots with them.

Out to about 100yds they have the same poi as 17gn in my rifle, but they drop off quicker at greater distance. Good for close foxes too as the bullet penetrates deeper and holds its mass.

I tend to buy whatever ammo i can get a good deal on 500, and if this amount is in stock, so have Feds at the mo, but always keep a few 20`s for fox on me.

Big thumbs up

 

 

Thank you Chard

 

 

 

I've read that the V-Max round often explodes and leaves small bullet fragments in the body of quarry (even if head shot). Is the hollow point round any cleaner, in either the 17 or 20 grain size? I don't like the idea of eating bits of copper jacket! I can't imagine a lack of clean kills being an issue with either bullet with head shots but if you can get runners with any of them, I'd like to know about it

 

As far as I am concerned this is absolute cobblers.

 

I've shot literally hundreds of rabbits in the head using 17 Hornady, and providing you hit the rabbit in the right place in the head there is no fragmentation into the body cavity - and I skin all of my rabbits for the butchers and would know otherwise.

 

You have to aim just above the eye of the rabbit, and sometimes this removes the top of the head. Fine.

 

If you aim towards the neck area then this can cause damage extending below the neck.

 

Any decent hmr will give groups of 0.5 - 0.75" groups at 100 yards. Wait 'til the rabbit is positioned with the head side on and that's it - one very dead, headshot rabbit with no body damage.

 

Don

 

Thats the reply I was looking for cheers Don

 

 

 

 

 

LB

[pin]

As far as I am concerned this is absolute cobblers.

 

I've shot literally hundreds of rabbits in the head using 17 Hornady, and providing you hit the rabbit in the right place in the head there is no fragmentation into the body cavity - and I skin all of my rabbits for the butchers and would know otherwise.

 

Not saying otherwise don, I know you know your onions. I have only seen this a handful of times but I've seen it and had it witnessed..

 

I completely accept it might be me, my chosen bullet or whatever, but I know what I have seen.

 

For the record I am not saying the .17 causes meat damage, as you say in the head it absolutely doesn't. Most of the time.

[al4x]

I wonder if the ones you're getting Pin are hitting low on the skull and fragmenting and being directed downwards as I've not seen it. Though its only a couple I guess its easy to use them for ferret food.

 

Sanders I think you're finding exactly what I did the bullet penetrates too well and so doesn't impart as much energy to the rabbit. These guns were designed to be devastating with a ballistic tip as a varmint gun and they do it very well. After all you're hitting a rabbit with @115 ftlbs at 100 yards and quite often there is no exit wound so that energy is passed entirely onto the rabbit which to me says its a bit like hitting it on the head with a big hammer.

I know people who use the 20 grain HP's on foxes that get the bullet exit and to me that isn't necessarily a good thing as the channel it leaves behind is so small. Ok the fox will die but it does mean it may have the ability to run a short distance. I've had no problems with the Vmax on foxes but I have only shot them relatively close.

[sandersj89]

I wonder if the ones you're getting Pin are hitting low on the skull and fragmenting and being directed downwards as I've not seen it. Though its only a couple I guess its easy to use them for ferret food.

 

Sanders I think you're finding exactly what I did the bullet penetrates too well and so doesn't impart as much energy to the rabbit. These guns were designed to be devastating with a ballistic tip as a varmint gun and they do it very well. After all you're hitting a rabbit with @115 ftlbs at 100 yards and quite often there is no exit wound so that energy is passed entirely onto the rabbit which to me says its a bit like hitting it on the head with a big hammer.

I know people who use the 20 grain HP's on foxes that get the bullet exit and to me that isn't necessarily a good thing as the channel it leaves behind is so small. Ok the fox will die but it does mean it may have the ability to run a short distance. I've had no problems with the Vmax on foxes but I have only shot them relatively close.

 

I am going to try PIN's test at the weekend. Sheets of ply put infront of each other slightly apart and shoot at them from 50m and 100m with 17gr and 20gr. Will be interesting to see if there is any noticable differance between the two.

 

Wholy unscinetific but might be interesting.

 

Jerry

[al4x]

that'll be my test

 

get 1/2 inch plu then space it with battens and I think you'll be surprised what a round that allegedly explodes on the surface does. Especially at longer distances when its travelling slower and so has less explosive effect. 200 yards my Vmax's were going all the way through 3 layers of 1/2 inch ply. I have to say I didn't try it with hollow points but the only difference I'd guess would be cleaner holes and less fragments of plastic tip everywhere

[sandersj89]

that'll be my test

 

get 1/2 inch plu then space it with battens and I think you'll be surprised what a round that allegedly explodes on the surface does. Especially at longer distances when its travelling slower and so has less explosive effect. 200 yards my Vmax's were going all the way through 3 layers of 1/2 inch ply. I have to say I didn't try it with hollow points but the only difference I'd guess would be cleaner holes and less fragments of plastic tip everywhere

 

Al4x, apologies. I am getting names all mixed up. Usual story for me!

 

I will try and take some pics to see how things compare.

 

I was thinking about 1/2" ply and setting it up with 1" battens seperating each sheet, maybe 4 or 5 sheets of ply in all. Screw the lot together to make the target and then run the test.

 

Just hope the weather plays fair while I am in Devon at the weekend.

 

Jerry

[al4x]

sounds good, I'll look forward to the pics, get some quite long distance ones if you can they can be quite impressive

[Hunter]

I see stacks of numbers and bullet weights etc etc..

But to be honest, it doesnt matter what bullet you use it will make a mess. If you go for well placed head shots youl be fine with any ammo (though avoid FMJ). Even an airgun pellet will damage the meat in the wrong place.

 

I tend to shoot everything with a head shot as I know it drops them. I will even do so on deer, (non trophy) and Fox with any size centerfire rifle.

[invector]

Some foxes shot with the 20 grain .17HMR do run, but not far. I've had deer run up to 40 yards after being hit in the boiler room with a 130 grain .270 round.