Scully Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 8 hours ago, ordnance said: I did not say anyone should wear a mask, I said that it would be common courtesy if somewone had Covid to wear a mask. As for people that are who are vulnerable they are taking self responsibility but there are things out of their control health care appointments for example, I doint think its to big a ask for in that type of settings for masks to be worn. PS You have a low suffering threshold if wearing a mask has you suffering Really? It isn’t for the able bodied to pussyfoot around the vulnerable Im afraid, but for the vulnerable to cater to themselves. You can’t seriously suggest nor expect the vast majority of the population to lead their lives and go about on a daily basis, constantly being alert to the needs of the vulnerable. Think it through; It’s both a ridiculous scenario and way to lead your life. 12 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: Exactly that. https://www.webmd.com/men/news/20020723/why-we-catch-colds-during-flights Fair enough; everydays a school day and all that. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigroomboy Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 8 hours ago, Stonepark said: Unfortunately the science is in due to the many studies over the last few years, masks, even commercial (non fitted) n95 masks, do just about ZERO to prevent the spread of airborne diseases such as COVID or the flu whether worn by an infected person, an uninfected person or both. Whilst n95 and surgical masks can catch significant amounts of aerosols for the first few minutes (ignoring poor fit), once the masks are saturated they become less effective but significantly if you are masked and next to an infected person, the masks might slow down the viral loading you are absorbing but this is only measured in minutes, hence the poor overall performance of masks. An infected person breathes out some 5000 COVID particles per breath, a cough or sneeze could be as many as 200 million (and most of which shoots out the gaps in the mask) and it is estimated that it only takes 1000 to 2000 COVID particles to cause an infection and which can be absorbed by 10 min face to face talking with an infected person even when both wearing masks. Sitting in an aeroplane for a couple of hours almost guarantees a high infection rate, and even if everyone was masked it would make little difference. You are right to an extent but you have to remember it's all a matter statistics with infection and heavily impacted by how people use the PPE they have. Most people simple are not able to use PPE in a way that is effective. Although in the most overly simplified terms you can spend 20 times longer in an infection scenario with an N95 mask than without. So it's up to the person to determine if that's worth the cost or not. I would say in some scenarios it may be for some people. The concept of masks for those infected is not something to be relied on. The protection factor is so small it only helps control a pandemic and offerers almost no protection as an individual. If you are personally concerned then wear an N95 or better mask in high risk situations and make sure you know how to wear these things effevtively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 Quote Really? It isn’t for the able bodied to pussyfoot around the vulnerable Im afraid, but for the vulnerable to cater to themselves. You can’t seriously suggest nor expect the vast majority of the population to lead their lives and go about on a daily basis, constantly being alert to the needs of the vulnerable.Think it through; It’s both a ridiculous scenario and way to lead your life. So you see wearing a mask in a hospital etc, as pussyfooting round the vulnerable OK, I see it as common courtesy to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 19 hours ago, ordnance said: I did not say anyone should wear a mask, I said that it would be common courtesy if somewone had Covid to wear a mask. You said On 09/02/2023 at 20:35, ordnance said: What about people that have no visible symptoms So logic dictates from this statement, that all should wear a mask, because they could be asymptomatic. 19 hours ago, ordnance said: As for people that are who are vulnerable they are taking self responsibility but there are things out of their control health care appointments for example, I doint think its to big a ask for in that type of settings for masks to be worn Like I said, if masks are so great at preventing the spread of covid, then the solution is for those at risk/feel at risk, to wear a mask, for their own 'protection', not expecting others to. 19 hours ago, ordnance said: PS You have a low suffering threshold if wearing a mask has you suffering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 11 hours ago, ordnance said: So you see wearing a mask in a hospital etc, as pussyfooting round the vulnerable OK, I see it as common courtesy to others. Hospital staff have a duty of care to those in hospital, vulnerable or not, the general public don't. What I actually said, was that the vulnerable should cater for their own vulnerabilities and not expect others to do so. If you feel vulnerable then protect yourself and wear a mask. It really couldn’t be any simpler. If covid will hit you hard due to certain health issues, then flu will also. Flu kills people every year, but no one is suggesting we test or wear a mask if we suspect we have that, but someone mentions the word covid and it’s panic stations all of a sudden, despite there now being vaccines for both. We really do need to get a collective grip and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Scully said: Hospital staff have a duty of care to those in hospital, vulnerable or not, the general public don't. What I actually said, was that the vulnerable should cater for their own vulnerabilities and not expect others to do so. If you feel vulnerable then protect yourself and wear a mask. It really couldn’t be any simpler. If covid will hit you hard due to certain health issues, then flu will also. Flu kills people every year, but no one is suggesting we test or wear a mask if we suspect we have that, but someone mentions the word covid and it’s panic stations all of a sudden, despite there now being vaccines for both. We really do need to get a collective grip and move on. But,,, but,,,,,, that's far too much common sense !!!!! 🙈🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 Well no surprise we ended back in hospital last night for one of the kids a long shift nearly 12 hours and we ended up in a huge mixed ward and not to be unkind most where like zombies and the few that weren't where getting spoon fed . i witnessed visitors coming in most staying barely 30 minutes .And the only thing i know for certain is i couldn't do the nurses or orderlies job they deserve every penny they get . We had to wait to see a doctor as he was operating and this was after 9 pm and weather these people wear ppe to protect themselves or there patient i couldn't care as i asked for a mask and gloves its alright saying theres a vaccine for everything but what about the die heart that dont want the vaccine or those unable to have it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 42 minutes ago, Bigbob said: its alright saying theres a vaccine for everything but what about the die heart that dont want the vaccine or those unable to have it What about them? If some ‘die hards’ don’t want the vaccine then that’s their choice, and if others are unable to have it, what difference does either group make to anyone, including the vulnerable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, Scully said: What about them? If some ‘die hards’ don’t want the vaccine then that’s their choice, and if others are unable to have it, what difference does either group make to anyone, including the vulnerable? Because they will be the carriers and hosts of the infection and rather than controlling it with vaccines it will be around a lot long I cant remember the celebrity ranting on about him no wanting the vaccine caught covid into hospital taking resources from the vulnerable who needed it and it killed him wonder if he wished he had been vaccinated at the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) Quote Hospital staff have a duty of care to those in hospital, vulnerable or not, the general public don't. I didn't say the general public had a duty of care, I said IMO it would be common courtesy to wear a mask in hospitals as they tend to be full with sick people. As for the Flu, the flu is seasonal and not near as widespread as Covid. Quote We really do need to get a collective grip and move on. Move on where, from what i see things are back to ( normal ) Edited February 11, 2023 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 A clinical environment (such as a hospital) is not to be compared to any other public setting, and anyone who insists on doing so is frankly a bit dull. At this point anyone still coming up with reasons to wear a mask such as “it can’t hurt” or some other asinine nonsense is truly beyond help. You do you, but I refuse, outside of a clinical setting, to do so. We have plenty of data showing the harm mask mandates cause, from child development through the immune compromised and the disabled. If you’re ignoring that saying “I don’t see what the big deal is”, I’ve no desire to convince you otherwise. Just do us all a favour and don’t insist on foisting your ‘security blanket’ on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 20 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: A clinical environment (such as a hospital) is not to be compared to any other public setting, and anyone who insists on doing so is frankly a bit dull. At this point anyone still coming up with reasons to wear a mask such as “it can’t hurt” or some other asinine nonsense is truly beyond help. You do you, but I refuse, outside of a clinical setting, to do so. We have plenty of data showing the harm mask mandates cause, from child development through the immune compromised and the disabled. If you’re ignoring that saying “I don’t see what the big deal is”, I’ve no desire to convince you otherwise. Just do us all a favour and don’t insist on foisting your ‘security blanket’ on others. My thoughts too ☝️ Last week I saw an old (mid 80's) couple in a supermarket doing an early shop (I presume to avoid the busier times). She was wearing one of those blue medical masks,,,, he wasn't ! Utterly pointless !!! And,,,, I still see the odd person wearing the same, driving a car,,,, on their own 😷🤷 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: A clinical environment (such as a hospital) is not to be compared to any other public setting, and anyone who insists on doing so is frankly a bit dull. At this point anyone still coming up with reasons to wear a mask such as “it can’t hurt” or some other asinine nonsense is truly beyond help. You do you, but I refuse, outside of a clinical setting, to do so. We have plenty of data showing the harm mask mandates cause, from child development through the immune compromised and the disabled. If you’re ignoring that saying “I don’t see what the big deal is”, I’ve no desire to convince you otherwise. Just do us all a favour and don’t insist on foisting your ‘security blanket’ on others. Where are you being asked to wear a mask apart from in clinical environments 2 hours ago, JKD said: My thoughts too ☝️ Last week I saw an old (mid 80's) couple in a supermarket doing an early shop (I presume to avoid the busier times). She was wearing one of those blue medical masks,,,, he wasn't ! Utterly pointless !!! And,,,, I still see the odd person wearing the same, driving a car,,,, on their own 😷🤷 If people choose to wear a mask thats up to them, even if they are alone in their car standing on their head wearing a mask why do you care. Edited February 11, 2023 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 13 minutes ago, ordnance said: If people choose to wear a mask thats up to them, even if they are alone in their car standing on their head wearing a mask why do you care. I don't care,,,, why do you care ?! I was pointing out that, in the circumstances I described, that the mask wearing was utterly pointless. The old couple got back in their car,,,, she took her mask off and immediately breathed in any germs/virus etc particles that he had breathed in and then out. Pointless !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 4 hours ago, ordnance said: I didn't say the general public had a duty of care, I said IMO it would be common courtesy to wear a mask in hospitals as they tend to be full with sick people. As for the Flu, the flu is seasonal and not near as widespread as Covid. Move on where, from what i see things are back to ( normal ) You said it would be a courtesy to others if those with covid wore masks, no mention of a hospital or clinical environment. While there are those advocating others wear masks for the benefit of the vulnerable, we won’t be back to normal. 7 hours ago, Bigbob said: Because they will be the carriers and hosts of the infection and rather than controlling it with vaccines it will be around a lot long I cant remember the celebrity ranting on about him no wanting the vaccine caught covid into hospital taking resources from the vulnerable who needed it and it killed him wonder if he wished he had been vaccinated at the end Eh? There will always be ‘carriers and hosts’ regardless of vaccines, just like the carriers and hosts who have colds or flu! The vaccine doesn’t prevent anyone getting covid or flu, and if anyone chooses not to have vaccines then that’s their choice; it would have absolutely no more effect on me, you or anyone else than it would if they were vaccinated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 Quote You said it would be a courtesy to others if those with covid wore masks, no mention of a hospital or clinical environment. While there are those advocating others wear masks for the benefit of the vulnerable, we won’t be back to normal. Maybe its differnt in your part of the UK, apart from hospital clinical environment etc here its choice if anyone wears a mask or not. You say back to normal, what is not back to normal where you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 hour ago, ordnance said: Maybe its differnt in your part of the UK, apart from hospital clinical environment etc here its choice if anyone wears a mask or not. You say back to normal, what is not back to normal where you are. It is choice here also, but if you claim it is choice then why try to push the point it would be a courtesy if those infectious wore masks? Like I’ve already said, ‘normal’ isn’t the insistence on the wearing of masks in clinical or hospital environments ( except in surgery ) whereas it wasn’t necessary pre-pandemic, and the suggestion that the infected would be courteous to others by wearing masks isn’t normal either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Scully said: It is choice here also, but if you claim it is choice then why try to push the point it would be a courtesy if those infectious wore masks? Like I’ve already said, ‘normal’ isn’t the insistence on the wearing of masks in clinical or hospital environments ( except in surgery ) whereas it wasn’t necessary pre-pandemic, and the suggestion that the infected would be courteous to others by wearing masks isn’t normal either. There was not Covid a virus that is all year round infecting staff and patients, I don't get why it would be a big deal for anyone to wear a mask in a hospital if it helped staff and patients keep infections under control. Infection control is nothing new and masks have been worn by staff and visitors before Covid and not just ( in surgery as you suggest. A summary of guidance for infection control in ... - GOV.UK https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › file › Pa... PDF Administrative controls: – timely recognition of influenza cases. – maintaining separation in space and/or time between influenza and non- influenza patients, ... Quote The suggestion that the infected would be courteous to others by wearing masks isn’t normal either. Maybe not in your world but it is in mine. Edited February 11, 2023 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 10 hours ago, ordnance said: Quote The suggestion that the infected would be courteous to others by wearing masks isn’t normal either. Maybe not in your world but it is in mine. So you have always worn a mask when you have cold or flu symptoms, even before covid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 10 hours ago, ordnance said: There was not Covid a virus that is all year round infecting staff and patients, I don't get why it would be a big deal for anyone to wear a mask in a hospital if it helped staff and patients keep infections under control. Infection control is nothing new and masks have been worn by staff and visitors before Covid and not just ( in surgery as you suggest. Maybe not in your world but it is in mine. You have the freedom of choice to just crack on and do that then! No one is stopping you! It is your choice to wear a mask, you just need to extend that freedom of choice to others. It’s not rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 8 hours ago, Scully said: You have the freedom of choice to just crack on and do that then! No one is stopping you! It is your choice to wear a mask, you just need to extend that freedom of choice to others. It’s not rocket science. Simple solution. If the deluded want to wear masks, crack on for the good it will do. Everyone else, back to normal, live your lives and live free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Newbie to this said: So you have always worn a mask when you have cold or flu symptoms, even before covid Covid is not the cold or flu, but if i had the flu and had to go to a medical facility yes i would be asked to wear a mask and would wear a mask. 1 hour ago, Mungler said: Simple solution. If the deluded want to wear masks, crack on for the good it will do. Everyone else, back to normal, live your lives and live free. So if you decide to wear a mask you are not living free, are you not living free because you are required to wear a seat belt then Edited February 12, 2023 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, ordnance said: So if you decide to wear a mask you are not living free, are you not living free because you are required to wear a seat belt then Comparing the wearing an in effective face covering which you may have knitted yourself in order to combat covid to the wearing a seat belt in a motor vehicle to protect against a collision makes no comparable sense. You are attempting to measure apples with camels. Besides, you get to do you, everyone else now gets to ignore you and live free of masks. Edited February 12, 2023 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Mungler said: Comparing the wearing an in effective face covering which you may have knitted yourself in order to combat covid to the wearing a seat belt in a motor vehicle to protect against a collision makes no comparable sense. You are attempting to measure apples with camels. Besides, you get to do you, everyone else now gets to ignore you and live free of masks. 27 minutes ago, Mungler said: Comparing the wearing an in effective face covering which you may have knitted yourself in order to combat covid to the wearing a seat belt in a motor vehicle to protect against a collision makes no comparable sense. You are attempting to measure apples with camels. Besides, you get to do you, everyone else now gets to ignore you and live free of masks. You were talking about ( Mungler Everyone else, back to normal, live your lives and live free ) not the effectiveness. Same question ( are you not living free because you are required to wear a seat belt then ) Quote Besides, you get to do you, everyone else now gets to ignore you and live free of masks People are free to ignore people if they want, I am not sure that wearing a mask or not has to do with that. Edited February 12, 2023 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 11 hours ago, ordnance said: Covid is not the cold or flu No it's not, but it is virtually identical. 11 hours ago, ordnance said: but if i had the flu and had to go to a medical facility yes i would be asked to wear a mask and would wear a mask. Not before, covid. At least I've never been asked to, so not 'normal' at all. So what about when meeting friends, family etc.? Was it normal to wear a mask when meeting them before covid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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