marsh man Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 This might well have already been discussed on the forum , but I was reading a bit in the local paper where the North Norfolk conservative M P ( Mr Baker ) signed the petition that was set up by Mr Packhams wild justice , the petition have already got over 100,000 with the second highest number from North Norfolk ( 602 ) . So what were your thoughts on pushing the season to start on the 1st December instead of the 1st of October ? I have seen a lot of change's over the last few years with peoples thoughts on Woodcock shooting , where once we would have several hanging up in the game larder after a days shooting where now we only see the odd one or two and they are for the people who shot them , on the mornings pep talk it is stated you can shoot Woodcock on the understanding you will want them for your own needs , this have reduced the shot numbers by 80 / 90 %. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 seeing the woodcock come in over the dunes on the 1st moon of sepember is a thing of the past........a study has and is underway as to the length of the woodcocks beak,,,,which is apparently over the last decades has got shorter.....which indicates where they are coming from appearsto be drying out ........ i think a re-jig of the season in general needs to be looked at..........i have seen on pre-xmas shoots cocks fighting for territory....something i usually see after shoots have ended.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 It’s not so straight forward. If you follow the science, it’s easy to see that breeding woodcock declines are a mainly a southern UK phenomena. Here in the north breeding numbers are stable. Also, this species is a Eurasian bird, and we are on the edge of its range, we are therefore more susceptible to minor population contractions / expansions over longer time frames. The official global conservation status of the Eurasian woodcock is “Stable and not under threat”. The latest commons debate generated by Wild Injustice - is just another attack on shooting based on spurious figures of 160,000 birds shot per year. This is quite obviously nonsense, given that most guns voluntarily don’t shoot them anyway. They have also taken advantage of a dreadful ignorance amongst politicians and members of the public who are very distant from the science. Even the UK ‘red listing’ is inappropriate - for a bird who’s population is extremely dynamic and difficult to call British. Some would call this ‘ring fence conservationism’ which lacks any wider perspective. Apologies for the lecture - I didn’t mean for it to come across in that way - but there are many aspects to this, making a straight forward UK perspective very tricky indeed. As for the season, it’s virtually pointless looking for woodcock in feasible numbers until the late November full moon, when the migrants arrive. Even then they need to be rested to feed for a couple of weeks afterwards. This normally takes us in to late November / early December, which is a form of self regulation. This makes Kwiss’s attack futile in the first place. I have no doubt Wild Injustice will claim a great victory over shooting however, if the official opening changes to 1st December…..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted March 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Fellside said: It’s not so straight forward. If you follow the science, it’s easy to see that breeding woodcock declines are a mainly a southern UK phenomena. Here in the north breeding numbers are stable. Also, this species is a Eurasian bird, and we are on the edge of its range, we are therefore more susceptible to minor population contractions / expansions over longer time frames. The official global conservation status of the Eurasian woodcock is “Stable and not under threat”. The latest commons debate generated by Wild Injustice - is just another attack on shooting based on spurious figures of 160,000 birds shot per year. This is quite obviously nonsense, given that most guns voluntarily don’t shoot them anyway. They have also taken advantage of a dreadful ignorance amongst politicians and members of the public who are very distant from the science. Even the UK ‘red listing’ is inappropriate - for a bird who’s population is extremely dynamic and difficult to call British. Some would call this ‘ring fence conservationism’ which lacks any wider perspective. Apologies for the lecture - I didn’t mean for it to come across in that way - but there are many aspects to this, making a straight forward UK perspective very tricky indeed. As for the season, it’s virtually pointless looking for woodcock in feasible numbers until the late November full moon, when the migrants arrive. Even then they need to be rested to feed for a couple of weeks afterwards. This normally takes us in to late November / early December, which is a form of self regulation. This makes Kwiss’s attack futile in the first place. I have no doubt Wild Injustice will claim a great victory over shooting however, if the official opening changes to 1st December…..! Very interesting and THANKS for replying MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedward Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 Excellent explanation Fellside, you should have been invited to speak at the recent parliamentary debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 If Wild Justice do get their way, I don't think it will make the blindest bit of difference to how many woodcock are shot in the UK. I don't know anyone who doesn't advocate restraint on woodcock until at least well in to December. As said above, if you understand the bird you'll know that the arriving migrants will find their habitat late November and then need a good couple of weeks to recover from their travels. I think our syndicate mirrors many shoots who say that you only shoot it if you're going to eat it. Some seasons we ban shooting them altogether if the numbers don't look prolific. We've seen plenty this last season so have allowed shooting them, but even so probably only 20 have been shot over a pretty decent size chunk of land that we cover. What does bother me if Wild Justice manage to push this through, is it will put them in a stronger position to carry on chipping away at shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted March 3, 2023 Report Share Posted March 3, 2023 On 02/03/2023 at 21:39, Tedward said: Excellent explanation Fellside, you should have been invited to speak at the recent parliamentary debate. Thank you. Unfortunately it has been left to a bunch of people who wouldn’t recognise a woodcock if it landed on their head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmm243 Posted March 4, 2023 Report Share Posted March 4, 2023 The majority of my shooting and most of my friends is shooting woodcock and snipe. I would have very little shooting without them. Realistically I don't do much until the last weekend in November and really only see good numbers from December onwards. This year we saw a lot of birds from start of December onwards and had some good days. I stopped shooting woodcock about mid Jan as I reckoned I had shot enough and they had done well enough to survive that well so I lef them in peace. The ground I shoot over I am the only person who shoots it so I can only assume the ones I left alone made it through the season if they stayed put. I have seen a lot of birds in the past two weeks when stalking but imagine most will be heading back soon. I would not be against not shooting woodcock until Dec as it is usually only then when those get going but would be reluctant to have it made compulsory. I believe that once that law would go through then there will be something else in the pipeline to curtail our shooting further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled Posted March 4, 2023 Report Share Posted March 4, 2023 Some really interesting points on this thread, nice one all. This next bit is a personal comment. Like others here woodcock and rough shooting is a big part of my shooting, and i too dont look to start until late November. If I lost October as a woodcock shooting month, i would not be bothered, however losing the last week of November would affect my shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureBoy Posted March 7, 2023 Report Share Posted March 7, 2023 No need for yet another law! It got sod all to do with woodcock! Did anyone else watch the debate? Not many there. Their body language was interesting. Arrogant! I hope the powers that be picked up on it. Packham more interested in his eyebrows and what's with his platform shoes? All head shaking, laughing at and talking amongst themselves when anyone against them speaking. Rude! The 3 of them reminded me of the old boys off the Muppets. Megan McCubbin didn't even stay till it had finished. On WJ blog they say it went better than they expected. North Norfolk MP spoke on their side and had been briefed by them. NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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