Konor Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: Against my better judgement, I listened to the whole podcast. If you want to hear about Carribean holidays or Carribean February weather - this is the podcast for you. Exciting topics about whether you would prefer to wear wellingtons day and night or never wear them at all. Terry described that as "a difficult one", finally coming down on the side of never wearing wellies. I was surprised and shocked by his response that he would never wear them. I confess to missing the link between the Carribean / wellies and lead shot. Terry said that the debate about lead shot started 40 years ago, but immediately moved to the ban on using lead over wetlands in 1999 and then to the current transition. I listened a couple of times just to make sure I hadn't lost 15 years. I am still unclear about what he meant. When questioned about whether the voluntary transition was successful, he said that significant progress had been made by manufacturers of ammunition. He didn't seem to grasp that about 6% of birds shot with steel, was some way short of 100%. Classic "they was coming in" and HSE minus the silent aitch. At around 23.20mins, he did refer to tests on gel covered in pheasant skin demonstrating that steel shot penetrated better than lead. I read the same research which seemed to indicate no difference. A bit odd. When asked about the dangers of lead water pipes, he was quick to point out that this had been banned for new builds in the last 20 years. He waffled on about existing lead pipe by helpfully pointing out that a householder could replace the lead pipe which was within their boundary. If a householder had lead pipe right up to their boundary, I struggled with the rationale in replacing a relatively short section, at a not so small cost. He seemed to be unaware of any barrels scored by steel shot, which he described as soft iron. He wasn't hot on detail about the need for a protective wad to enclose the steel shot. I don't know why manufacturers bothered about the protective wad, as Terry gave me the impression that barrels don't need protecting. The whole podcast seemed to deal with the sale of game shot with lead or steel. The alleged damage to the environment was given negligible coverage. As some would say - listen and make up your own mind. It's up to you. I'm glad you took the time to say that. You take for granted that Conor and BASC have the same capacity for critical thinking but they seem to think that the podcast is so good that it should be lauded as such on a public forum and that they sincerely think that they will somehow gain approval for their actions with this quality of work. I think it must be a result of working in a non critical echo chamber. Come on BASC sort this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigteddy1954 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 Hi why doesn't all the shooting organisations let all the members have a vote on the transition of lead shot and see where we all stand .Then fight from there instead of speaking for us simples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 3 minutes ago, Bigteddy1954 said: Hi why doesn't all the shooting organisations let all the members have a vote on the transition of lead shot and see where we all stand .Then fight from there instead of speaking for us simples Because they all know better than the Plebs, not a single member of any organisation was consulted AFAIK and as a result I am no longer a member of any of them. I will buy insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 10 minutes ago, Bigteddy1954 said: Hi why doesn't all the shooting organisations let all the members have a vote on the transition of lead shot and see where we all stand .Then fight from there instead of speaking for us simples While they keep being paid they will follow there own agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted April 24 Author Report Share Posted April 24 17 minutes ago, Bigteddy1954 said: Hi why doesn't all the shooting organisations let all the members have a vote on the transition of lead shot and see where we all stand .Then fight from there instead of speaking for us simples There has been 4 years of consultation. Did you respond to the recent BASC survey? It was highlighted on this forum. 12 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: Because they all know better than the Plebs, not a single member of any organisation was consulted AFAIK and as a result I am no longer a member of any of them. I will buy insurance. There has been 4 years of consultation. Did you respond to the recent BASC survey? It was highlighted on this forum. 5 minutes ago, mellors said: While they keep being paid they will follow there own agenda. Did you respond to the recent BASC survey? It was highlighted on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 12 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: There has been 4 years of consultation. Did you respond to the recent BASC survey? It was highlighted on this forum. As has been pointed out , and totally ignored by your good self, the 4 years of consultation (which hasnt at all been any form of consultation) came after you announced the transition. So , why you keep repeating this ad nauseum is a bit strange. Its like having a Brexit referendum 4 years after we leave the EU, except in that case we had to do it the other way round Why didnt you at least give BASC membership a vote on this direction, or do you still believe the majority would have voted to bin lead shot ? Because if you do , Ive some magic beans to sell..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 (edited) Consulting for 4 years after the event of selling us down the river, that is not consulting in any shape or form just a total sell out. I am amazed any of you have any members left, you really don't deserve any. I wouldn't call insulting members of this forum consulting just patronising and as for your surveys and Podcasts, a total and utter joke. Edited April 24 by Weihrauch17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 47 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: There has been 4 years of consultation. Did you respond to the recent BASC survey? It was highlighted on this forum. There has been 4 years of consultation. Did you respond to the recent BASC survey? It was highlighted on this forum. Did you respond to the recent BASC survey? It was highlighted on this forum. No. It was too late BASC already published "their support " to transition away from lead shot they never asked me i pay BASC to protect my sport obviously that hasn't happened. There never was or is any conclusive evidence on lead shot causing lead poisoning as has been shown on here. I've no reason to put you down or belittle you in any way you say your posting as a member so tell us your position on the subject not BASCs. The more you quote BASC doesn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted April 24 Author Report Share Posted April 24 44 minutes ago, Rewulf said: As has been pointed out , and totally ignored by your good self, the 4 years of consultation (which hasnt at all been any form of consultation) came after you announced the transition. So , why you keep repeating this ad nauseum is a bit strange. Its like having a Brexit referendum 4 years after we leave the EU, except in that case we had to do it the other way round Why didnt you at least give BASC membership a vote on this direction, or do you still believe the majority would have voted to bin lead shot ? Because if you do , Ive some magic beans to sell..... I have explained all this many times before on this forum. Why keep asking the same questions that you already know the answer to? 43 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: Consulting for 4 years after the event of selling us down the river, that is not consulting in any shape or form just a total sell out. I am amazed any of you have any members left, you really don't deserve any. I wouldn't call insulting members of this forum consulting just patronising and as for your surveys and Podcasts, a total and utter joke. There is no ban on lead ammunition thanks to BASC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 4 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: I have explained all this many times before on this forum. Why keep asking the same questions that you already know the answer to? There is no ban on lead ammunition thanks to BASC. Not yet but there will be thanks to BASC and then you are all out of a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted April 24 Author Report Share Posted April 24 12 minutes ago, mellors said: I've no reason to put you down or belittle you in any way you say your posting as a member so tell us your position on the subject not BASCs. I trust the GWCT advice on the impact of lead shot fired from shotguns on birds. I personally support the voluntary move away from lead shot for live quarry shooting. I have no lead shot cartridges left and I will never use lead shotgun cartridges again for live quarry shooting. How about you? 8 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: Not yet but there will be thanks to BASC and then you are all out of a job. Why will there be a lead ban 'thanks to BASC'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: I trust the GWCT advice on the impact of lead shot fired from shotguns on birds. I personally support the voluntary move away from lead shot for live quarry shooting. I have no lead shot cartridges left and I will never use lead shotgun cartridges again for live quarry shooting. How about you? Why will there be a lead ban 'thanks to BASC'? Because BASC have already declared it as Toxic and a substance that should be phased out, you haven't a leg to stand on when the HSE do so in law, you will have aided and abetted them. We have used it for hundreds of years with zero ill effect, pathetic. Why do you keep on stating you have 'only' (a total betrayal) sought a transition away from Lead shot is Shotguns for Game shooting? https://basc.org.uk/basc-response-to-uk-reach-lead-ammunition-consultation You couldn't lie straight in bed. Edited April 24 by Weihrauch17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 10 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: I trust the GWCT advice on the impact of lead shot fired from shotguns on birds Has any these Organisations looked at how much land in GB is actually shot over. I believe i've read somewhere 75% or there about is farmland and woodland so would it be safe to say at best 30% would actually have lead on it, and most arable land would be moved every year for drilling hence buried or mixed into the top 6", woodland it would be buried under the foliage in the fall. So in my opinion a very small risk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 4 minutes ago, 8 shot said: Has any these Organisations looked at how much land in GB is actually shot over. I believe i've read somewhere 75% or there about is farmland and woodland so would it be safe to say at best 30% would actually have lead on it, and most arable land would be moved every year for drilling hence buried or mixed into the top 6", woodland it would be buried under the foliage in the fall. So in my opinion a very small risk And mine most arable land is turned over and cultivated before the birds nest probably the biggest threat to wild game birds is farming practice sprays planting methods and predators not lead shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted April 24 Author Report Share Posted April 24 26 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: Because BASC have already declared it as Toxic and a substance that should be phased out, you haven't a leg to stand on when the HSE do so in law, you will have aided and abetted them. We have used it for hundreds of years with zero ill effect, pathetic. Why do you keep on stating you have 'only' (a total betrayal) sought a transition away from Lead shot is Shotguns for Game shooting? https://basc.org.uk/basc-response-to-uk-reach-lead-ammunition-consultation You couldn't lie straight in bed. Do you think that the use of lead airgun pellets for live quarry and target shooting will be banned thanks to BASC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said: have explained all this many times before on this forum. Why keep asking the same questions that you already know the answer to All you have ever said was 'BASC doesn't work like that' And that Conor, isn't an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted April 24 Author Report Share Posted April 24 4 minutes ago, Old farrier said: And mine most arable land is turned over and cultivated before the birds nest probably the biggest threat to wild game birds is farming practice sprays planting methods and predators not lead shot Back in the day we had all sorts of toxic chemicals being lauded and used to improve food production and those suggesting that this was impacting on insects and birds were ridiculed as antis. And now we know the truth thanks to GWCT and other orgs. Rethink and unlearn. GWCT advises us to move away from lead shot so let's not be the dinosaurs that prevent a sustainable future for shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 1 minute ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Do you think that the use of lead airgun pellets for live quarry and target shooting will be banned thanks to BASC? I don't know but as you declare lead is toxic and needs phasing out maybe it will be, why should this lethal poison have any exemptions? BASC have recommended expanding lead rifle ammunition is phased out which the last time I looked isn't Lead Shot for Game shooting. The whole thing is a total and utter farce. Don't worry Conor you will be out of a job if Lead is banned because a huge number will give up on a bad job and those that are left won't thank you for betraying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted April 24 Author Report Share Posted April 24 1 minute ago, Rewulf said: All you have ever said was 'BASC doesn't work like that' And that Conor, isn't an answer. Please find the quote. 1 minute ago, Weihrauch17 said: I don't know but as you declare lead is toxic and needs phasing out maybe it will be, why should this lethal poison have any exemptions? BASC have recommended expanding lead rifle ammunition is phased out which the last time I looked isn't Lead Shot for Game shooting. The whole thing is a total and utter farce. Don't worry Conor you will be out of a job if Lead is banned because a huge number will give up on a bad job and those that are left won't thank you for betraying them. So basically you are not up to speed on policy developments but you see fit to make outlandish statements on a public forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Please find the quote. So basically you are not up to speed on policy developments but you see fit to make outlandish statements on a public forum? I have seen a proposal that pellets are made exempt (whoopee thanks for that), why would that be if they are so poisonous. No I don't know what will happen because nothing has been put into law, but I would hazard a 99% guess facilitated by BASC and the other Org's. I haven't made any outlandish statements just fact. Why do you keep lying about not including expanding lead rifle ammunition in your voluntary 'transition' that virtually nobody is volunteering for. You couldn't make this train crash up in your wildest dreams. Edited April 24 by Weihrauch17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 Surely there is some support for Conor’s views on the forum. He has already stated opposition is limited to a minority. Perhaps the majority are in agreement with the minority and feel no need to add to the criticism Conor is receiving. It seems reasonable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 12 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Back in the day we had all sorts of toxic chemicals being lauded and used to improve food production and those suggesting that this was impacting on insects and birds were ridiculed as antis. And now we know the truth thanks to GWCT and other orgs. Rethink and unlearn. GWCT advises us to move away from lead shot so let's not be the dinosaurs that prevent a sustainable future for shooting. There’s plenty of chemicals used now obviously not toxic 🙄 however they kill all the bugs insects and caterpillars on the crops because people won’t buy a cabbage or cauliflower with a caterpillar in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 23 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Please find the quote. Are you stating for the record , that you never said this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 15 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Back in the day we had all sorts of toxic chemicals being lauded and used to improve food production and those suggesting that this was impacting on insects and birds were ridiculed as antis. And now we know the truth thanks to GWCT and other orgs. Rethink and unlearn So what is it ? We have huge amounts of Red Kites and Buzzards, last shooting season at least 30 Greys and last January 200 plus Lapwings and we shoot 4/5 days with a bag of 10 to 30 of various, we farm I suppose intensively but we have signed up to no insecticides for the next 3 years. We control Foxes Carrion Crow and Magpies 20, 20 and 60 odd respectively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 (edited) conor what is the percentage of cartridge sales suitable for live quarry shooting over the last five years? not too hard to find out by asking the importers and u.k. manufacturers is it? This by email which was received this week by a local dealer was passed on to me today after visiting the shop today to buy some powder. Share your experience to help us improve! European regulations, aimed at regulating the use of lead for pellet ammunition, have stimulated the search for innovative alternatives to lead. Tungsten, copper, bismuth, and steel are currently the materials most commonly used for the production of lead-free cartridges. We ask you to fill out this short survey to help us understand what your needs are. ANSWER THE SURVEY Your experience will surely help us understand which information is important to you. All you need is your smartphone, follow the instructions, and no more than five minutes. Thank you for your attention and cooperation! Baschieri & Pellagri Team Edited April 24 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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