Why I stopped buying Fiocchi

[enfieldspares]

On 17/02/2025 at 23:52, BobbyH said:

Can different manufacturers really be that different, or is it psychological?

 

I used to handload pistol cartridges (I use this example for a reason I will explain) back before the Tory handgun ban. These used "lead" bullets. So my use of this as an example. My lead bullets I cast commercially using pure linotype and bespoke Hensley & Gibbs moulds. Weight variation from bullet to bullet of a nominal 120 grains was never more than +/- 1 grain.

Some bullets you sampled from other home loafers were widely varying in weight, in metal composition of the alloy and thus variable harness and variable amounts of leading they would leave in the barrel. So the biggest variation from shotgun cartridge maker to maker is the quality of the shot.

Soft shot leads barrels and abrades as it gets fired. It also crushes more easily. This means it does not pattern as well as harder shot. Shot hardness is achieved by using antimony. That is expensive. So expensive and better graded shot patterns better. 

Shot is graded by sieving. As the sieves are used they wear. Thus old sieves allow shot to pass as a #8 that actually is nearer a #7 1/2. Those of us old enough will recall Eastern European cartridges where there was shot like a bag of "runts" sweeties. All shapes and all sizes!

Next are wads. Eley so called fibre wads in 1980s Grand Prix Thames board or similar to builders' plasterboard. Cheap. Best wads were always wool felt. Indeed my late father who could have afforded any cartridge he wanted used Sellier & Beloit Mk Ii as it was a better wad even if brown felt it was still properly greased felt.

Finally powder. Some powder gives more velocity per grain in a charge at the expense of not being as clean burning. This is the single base v double base argument. Double base powders are more efficient but more expensive but burn cleaner. So we have all see nice clean bored after fifty shots vs filthy dirty leaded bores after a similar fifty shots.

So while brand X may to throw 28 grams at 1400 fps and brand Y and brand Z the same there's more to it than that. And that "more to it" is the quality and consistency of the pellets more than anything else and next the amount of fouling left in the bore which, I would argue, is down to wad and powder quality. But shot is the biggest variable 

[enfieldspares]

As an everyday comparison look at how some sort called locksmiths keys look when they cut one from your "master" to how a key cut by a proper locksmith will look. Why? Because the el cheapo locksmith lets his machine run on longer before renewing and replacing the parts that wear. Indeed we have maybe all had a key cut that when we get back home either doesn't work at all or feels rough. Because it hasn't been replaced when it was worn. Cartridge loading equipment is the same. 

[BobbyH]

Impressive write up there! I do see what your saying...

So find a cartridge that works for you and your gun.... 

[rbrowning2]

modern cartridge loading machines are nothing like a key cutting machine, they are precision machines costing lots of euros.

https://www.bsn.it/machine/

 

[Gas seal]

Hi enfieldspares , if brings back memories of loading pistol rounds with my dad. I’m sure it was tin maybe ,tin soldering rods , from a plumber friend we mixed with the lead.

Before the lead (ban) local wildflowers used ‘clay pigeon’ cartridges for shooting teal , a few Canada geese were shot with the same cartridges.

  

[Scully]

Some in our club used to load from recovered lead from the butts, tyre weights and from other sources mixed with antimony. 
The best reloads I had were some swaged .38 heads a mate did for my little S&W New Departure model. They were little works of art and too nice to use! Still have them somewhere. 

[Gas seal]

Hi poor shot , a lot of the wads and lead shot are from Italy . Rio cartridges make their own components for their cartridges, and are making bio cartridges. 

[Windswept]

6 hours ago, Gas seal said:

Hi enfieldspares , if brings back memories of loading pistol rounds with my dad. I’m sure it was tin maybe ,tin soldering rods , from a plumber friend we mixed with the lead.

There's quite a few lead alloys used, some are just lead and tin, others lead antimony and tin. 

Plenty of people still cast their own bullets for revolvers and rifles. I've found range scrap can actually be a bit too hard these days for slow pistol calibre rounds so just need tin and/or antimony for fast rifle bullets.

Going back to the shot, is any hardened these days bay quenching?

Edited 4 hours ago by Windswept

[Gas seal]

Hi Windswept , it was over sixty years ago when l loaded with my dad . I know one pistol was a .38 special and one was a webley . I remember firing them and one cylinder turned clockwise and one turned anti clockwise.

 Anatomy will make pellets a bit lighter, l was told Italian shot (smaller size shot) is dropped in water to harden it . I think Rio manufacturers do this. I don’t think it’s done as much with the larger shot.