Tel Time Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 a friend of mine is in the process of being sacked for having shotgun cartridges in a works vehicle that has private use on it, the company involved has told him to go for "endangering the public, not to mention, if there was a fire, the firemans lives", i have never heard such ******** in all my life We pay for private use and the only reason they were there was because the van broke down and had to be transported to the depot just as we were going shooting, there were only about 10 clay shells in a safe out of the way place, but, and i quote " i wanted to park the van in the middle of the car park and call the police" from the mouth of the manager, if he was that worried then why would he drive the van?!?! there are other issues involved, like the spurned proposition, the just do as you are told even if it endangers the public refusal and oops your tools went missing from a locked van in a locked depot with a locked toolbox with cctv and its not our problem pal! what a load of ******! sorry to rant about this but when do we shooters get a break? feel free to vent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Mungler may have his own spin on this, but speaking as an employer I feel that your friend is in the process of being unfairly dismissed. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) Can I just say.. As licensed shooters, we all take responsibility to ensure the safety of others by securing our fireams and keeping ammunition secure. Though shotgun shells do not have to legally be secured, it is still a good idea to maintain a good level of practice. Shotgun cartridges are generally quite safe, and have been designed in a way not to explode in bulk. But.. It is a company vehicle, most likely under their insurance cover, and they are quite possibly covering their own backs in the rare event that if he was hurt by the shells while driving the vehicle, their insurance may be void, or he may sue. (thats todays world for you). Never ever leave cartridges/rifle ammo (fired or unfired) in areas where the general public has contact with. Its bad practice and will attract Antis from all corners who are waiting to strike. Hope I dont seem unfair here, but I have never had an incident or complaint as I always cover my back, front, overhead, and bellow, when it comes to shooting. Its so easy to get in the doodoo. I think sacking the chap is truly the wrong move, and could become a legal dispute. Edited February 13, 2008 by Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'd be willing to bet that perhaps they are using this an excuse... and therefore making more of it... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 They definately seem to make a meal of that one , good luck to your mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretman Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 it really gets to me wen **** like this happens it not far on us shooters n we seem to get it all the time i am with you mate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Time Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 it is most defienetly a case of constructive dismissal, the chap involved had the van transported to safe keeping and left the van and keys with the manager and told him it had to be kept locked as it had personal items in it, the lad then had to go out to get his kids and it slipped his mind, like i said they had to go looking for the shotgun shells, and in the process stuff went "missing", it's a clear case of unfair but with the current climate against shooters his back is truly against the wall, the point on insurance is quite valid and would need addressing if he were not a responsible shooter and insured, christ almighty with basc we get £10 million of cover for £50ish , but what does our £300 of car insurance get us? i think that would be quite a lame one to try and get rid of someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEFTY478 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I know of no restrictions on the carrage of shootie shells in private cars. Unless, and it seems unlikey, his contract of employment had a clause banning them specifically, I suspect; 1. they're on dodgy ground. & 2. there's a another reason behind the disciplinary action. Good luck to your mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 More to this than meets the eye me thinks. I'd want to dig a little deeper...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 certainly sounds like he's being turned over. has he asked/ got a copy of any agreements that were signed when the position was taken or the vehicle was handed over, a contract or a drivers/vehicle users handbook for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Quite often company car/vehicle insurance does not cover all personal items conveyed in the vehicle, or those that are not connected with the employment. I know of two Sales Reps that each had a set of golf clubs stolen from their company car and found out they were not covered. Also, as others have said, there may be more to this case than meets the eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'd be willing to bet that perhaps they are using this an excuse... and therefore making more of it... ? What he said.... I'm afraid it sounds to me as though they've been looking for a reason to get rid, and are using this as a means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Your chum should look at whether he has legal expenses insurance on his home policy with a view to getting a solicitor to implement tribunal action against the employer. He should appeal the dismissal internally using the company's obligatory dispute resolution process under the disciplinary policy and 28 days after that he can issue for unfair dismissal in the tribunal. There's more on the ACAS website about these procedures. I would be surprised if this was the whole story. Whether he is protected against unfair dismissal depends upon whether he has a year's service or not though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Time Posted February 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 the stress of this is literally killing my mate, its awful to see such a dedicated, customer orientated employee get turned over in this manner, the reason, and the only one i can see, is that he will tell them to get lost if he thinks it will affect the customer adversely, when fitting the product we do there are inviolate rules, set in stone, but they keep pushing for the bloke to break the rules to meet their targets, it looks like a court battle but he has already lost his wife, his house, his professional standing and his sanity, all this because he stood up to the management who have used procedures against him to get rid of him sad, really really sad.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancs Lad Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Funny enough.......I read my employee handbook which states Im not allowed to bring firearms or ammo to work. Thats probably a good thing with my boss...................I wouldnt want to have a nasty accident. Saying that, I did have 3 boxes of Lavelle steel shot in the secret compartment of the golf............now shifted..... Wouldnt want them having an excuse. But during my "off times" then I have full personal use of the vehicle and they cant give me grief. The bosses know that I shoot so I dont think that there can be any come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 To be honest i think the Manager is over reacting and that if your mate spoke to his HR department they would almost drop the case in question.... Im a Manager and a company car driver and i pay a premium to use the car for my own personal use...nothing states that i cant carry my gun in the car....the only thing i can not do, is use my fuel car for travelling to and from a holiday destination. I would bypass this idiot and go straight to HR and take it from there, but as far as i can see there is no case for dismissal and if they go down that route i would of thought your mate would have a very good legal case for unfair dismissal Good luck Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Speaking as a manager myself I sense your friend works for a utility company- Correct? They do have a habit of having managers with this type of attitude. With works vehicles nowadays its all about insurance keeping the premiums down etc- Thats why a lot of company vehicles have trackers fitted- its a way of getting premiums down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Time Posted February 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 not a utility company and it was a person from hr who phoned him to say they were going to get rid of him, i have since inquired at higher level and been told that what i do in my own time in the vehicle i pay personal allowance and tax on is my own business, as long as i am not doing anything illegal then thats fine, looks like its going to be an expensive lesson for this company to learn..... wonder what he will buy with the compensation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker1 Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) i do hope your pal gets things sorted out asap, please pass on my best wishes, regards stalker Edited February 15, 2008 by stalker1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Sam Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Remember that you dont technically 'own' shotgun cartridges as the sale is never recorded. And possession without a license is 100% legal. So technically they belong to the chap who found them unless proved otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taz24 Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Remember that you dont technically 'own' shotgun cartridges as the sale is never recorded. And possession without a license is 100% legal. So technically they belong to the chap who found them unless proved otherwise. I disagree. You do not need a certificate to own or hold shotgun cartridges. You do not evan need a license to buy or sell them. taz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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