BASC selling off the family silver.

[al4x]

Isnt there a noticably non responce from from Basc Dave?

 

 

Just remember that David BASC has no obligation to come on here and explain anything to anybody.

We appreciate his contributions and suggest you treat him with a tad more respect.

 

These seems to be another extreme case of "jumping before you are bitten".

 

 

I'm amazed he bothers with blatant misinformation and being pretty much slandered, How you go from that press release to the first post is beyond belief.

[new to the flock]

Thank You David. :blink:

 

Although I am not from the UK I would like to say that I have used Basc for information regarding my insurance, and my destinations, and my shooting while planning trips to the UK. And yes some of those trips involved the use of what we call an outfitter.....professional pigeon guide to you. As far as I am concerned Basc are every bit as proffessional as our Head bodies over here, and do an excellant job not only promoting but protecting the shooting and outdoor pursuits in the UK. I also think that the fees you pay for the service you recieve are pitance in the large scope.

 

It is time many of the outdoor enthusiasts of the UK realise just how important the entire picture of support, education, introduction, and promotion of the Countryside Pursuits is. Basc is not just about insurance!

 

There are many places in both Canada and the USA that it is illegel for non residant .....meaning people from outside the province or state..... to hunt without a guide, let alone people from overseas. Hunting from non residant hunters brings billions of dollars into the economy every year, through accomidations, food, shopping, and licences. This also creates a very load voice when it comes to fighting the government and poor decisions.

[CharlieT]

Well, all I can say is, if all it takes is a few pieces of silver to enable BASC to take part in such an initiative......... then sell some more........ and lets see BASC taking part in more of these worthwhile projects

[new to the flock]

This is just to show you folks how expensive it can be .

 

Per Year;

Small Game Licence...$18.23

Resident Licence to hunt raccone at night..$16.83

Resident Dog Liecence to Hunt Racoon at Night...$9.81

 

Moose Calf Licence..$41.13 ( this allows you to enter the draw for an adult, not guaranteed)

Resident Dog Licence to hunt and track moose....$9.81

 

Resident Deer Licence....$34.58 ( this allows one buck deer by bow, you must enter a draw for the chance of a doe tag or the chance of hunting shotgun or black powder)( if you are successful in a second tag it is another $34.58)

Resident Dog Licence to hunt or track deer....$9.81

 

Resident Black bear $34.58

Resident Dog Licence to hunt or track bear...$9.81

 

Wild Turkey per bird 2 max......$21.70

 

Migratory Game Bird, ( ducks, geese, woodcock) permit .....$17.50

Migratory Game Bird Stamp.....$8.50

 

Sport Fishing licence.......$23.79

 

Ontario Trappers Licence......$37.45

 

Ontario Fur Managers Federation $10.70

Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters.....$54.00

 

Cost of getting a hunting licence course $125.00 course cost plus a $30.00 test fee

Cost of getting a trapping licence course cost of $125.00 plus a $20.00 test fee

Cost of getting a Licence to Hunt Wild Turkey $125.00 plus a $20.00 test fee

 

Canadian Boaters Licence $60.00 test fee $125.00 course is optional.

 

So to hunt, fish, boat and trap in Ontario the first year it costs...$794.81 and that is before joining the main insuring bodies that work for us that brings it upto.....$859.51.

 

Each year there after if you are hunting all species, trapping, and fishing it costs per year....$414.51 . This is my average cost before adding in travel, fuel, equiptment, accomidations or any township licence fees for rabbits, pheasant, or dog licences.

 

NTTF

[Jimbo57]

I am listening to what you boys are saying. Maybe things are different in England.

 

I do sincerely hope that you never find that you have lost your shooting because some agent comes along and offers the farmer money for it. And I do mean that sincerely.

 

I used to have the vermin control on 8 farms. Over the years that has been cut back to 2 farms because the letting agents have stepped in and brought in paying guns from France and Italy. If I loose the remaining 2 farms I might as well hand in my gun. One of the farmers I lost told me that the agents do not do nearly as good a job of vermin control as I used to do but the money makes up for it.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Jimbo57

[Cranfield]

I am listening to what you boys are saying. Maybe things are different in England.

 

I do sincerely hope that you never find that you have lost your shooting because some agent comes along and offers the farmer money for it. And I do mean that sincerely.

 

I used to have the vermin control on 8 farms. Over the years that has been cut back to 2 farms because the letting agents have stepped in and brought in paying guns from France and Italy. If I loose the remaining 2 farms I might as well hand in my gun. One of the farmers I lost told me that the agents do not do nearly as good a job of vermin control as I used to do but the money makes up for it.

 

Perhaps thats a side of the argument that not all of us appreciate.

[al4x]

out of interest what vermin are they travelling that far to control?

[David BASC]

Perhaps an issue here is to develop better relationships with the Agents- As I have said before I am keen that game shoots for example do not knock pigeon shooters off of their ‘patch’ the two can exist in harmony, and the same can apply to commercial shoots.

 

I was going to suggest that BASC takes this forward and discusses this in detail with the major land agents- but then I thought- hang on, some of these guys on here will come back with ‘BASC are just doing this to feather their nest’ and ‘BASC are just doing this to make more members’ and ‘BASC are going to take away my shooting’ and ‘I have has loads of free shooting for all my life, and now BASC are going to make me pay for it, and to take a test before I can go shooting’ and all the rest.

 

David

[Cranfield]

David, if the BASC are not going to do things if they fear criticism, or adverse reaction from some members, then they won't do anything.

 

There will always be rumours and chinese whispers, but as long as the BASC are clear as to what their policy is and state it publicly, they can diffuse them from the off.

[shaun4860]

Isnt there a noticably non responce from from Basc Dave?

 

 

Just remember that David BASC has no obligation to come on here and explain anything to anybody.

We appreciate his contributions and suggest you treat him with a tad more respect.

 

These seems to be another extreme case of "jumping before you are bitten".

 

 

:blink:

 

sowwy.......

[markbivvy]

thanks David, nice to see you back.

just a question if its not to much trouble please.

 

I was going to suggest that BASC takes this forward and discusses this in detail with the major land agents- but then I thought- hang on, some of these guys on here will come back with ‘BASC are just doing this to feather their nest’ and ‘BASC are just doing this to make more members’ and ‘BASC are going to take away my shooting’ and ‘I have has loads of free shooting for all my life, and now BASC are going to make me pay for it, and to take a test before I can go shooting’ and all the rest.

 

are you asking members and none members not to question any actions taken by the basc on shooting matters.

 

as paying members and prospective members of any organization questions will be asked and rumors will abound.

[David BASC]

Anyone can ask me anything- but keep it civil and non antagonistic.

 

You can question what you like, on the basis that you will also accept the answer that is given, I will not guarantee that everyone of you will always like what I write. Sometimes hard decisions have to be taken, short term pain for long term gain. Remember also that I do not set BASC policy, nor does any one person at BASC. Policy is set by the elected BASC council- the council that ALL BASC members have right to vote for.

 

Questions are fine, rumours on the other hand are simply a waste of time and effort and achieve nothing, apart from keeping the conspiracy theorists gainfully employed of course.

 

Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it) shooting is so diverse that it is hard to please all the people all the time. Even within pigeon shooting we have guys on here desperate to cling onto a few acres of shooting, and others sitting on thousands of acres. Both are passionate shooters I am sure, but could some degree of cooperation benefit all? Kind of takes me back to my earlier post- there is only so much land in the UK and if we do not develop a culture of sharing and trust I am afraid only those who have the big bucks (or the big contacts)will get the shooting, do you want that I know I don't! (I don't have big bucks or big contacts believe it or not)

 

One poor sod last week who was brand new to the forum made the mistake of simply asking if anyone in his area would help him find shooting. And guess what - one of you shot the guy down in flames! Well done hope you are proud of yourself! Imagine if you asked for help and you got such harsh treatment how would you feel? I bet he won't ask any more questions! And we are all on the same side (or are we?)

 

D

[Cranfield]

One poor sod last week who was brand new to the forum made the mistake of simply asking if anyone in his area would help him find shooting. And guess what - one of you shot the guy down in flames! Well done hope you are proud of yourself! Imagine if you asked for help and you got such harsh treatment how would you feel? I bet he won't ask any more questions! And we are all on the same side (or are we?)

 

D

 

 

The person who joins and their first post is along the lines of, "can someone take me shooting", "can someone give me some shooting", is rarely going to get a positive response, apart from being directed to the "help" threads.

 

The only way to get shooting is to go and knock on doors (unless you have a pigeon shooting club in your area), thats how we all got our shooting.

 

There is plenty of advice given on this Forum on how to get shooting and many members have enjoyed days out shooting with other members, after local contact has been made.

 

It takes time to build up trust in someone and a face to face meeting at one of the Pigeon Watch Meets that take place round the country , certainly helps establish relationships and credibility.

It should also be noted that a lot of shooters who have permissions, are not permitted to take people with them.

 

What doesn't get publicised on this Forum is the amount of free decoying equipment, books and even clothing, that is given to new young shooters who post on here, by the members.

 

You ask us not to criticise without understanding all the facts, I would suggest you adopt the same principle.

 

EDIT NOTE: If you go back and look at that particular thread, you will see that I did make a polite post after the "flaming" one, explaining the situation.

[markbivvy]

top man C. :blink:

 

I am glad your finger is faster than mine.

[CharlieT]

In their chosen role as THE shooting sports organisation the BASC have found themselves between a rock and a hard place. When Stanley Duncan founded WAGBI all those years ago it was the umbrella body representing wildfowling and life was simple, wildfowling was what it was all about.

 

Over the years WAGBI grew to also represent roughshooters. Now many years and a change of name later BASC represent everything from wildfowling to driven game shooting.

 

Now when they promote driven game shooting they are criticised, however if they don't promote it they run the risk, in the eyes of government, of not being seen to represent all shooting and by default not having so much clout.

 

I suppose at the end of the day it is down to the membership to become more involved and help steer BASC in the direction that the majority of the membership wish.

 

Although without doubt game shooting generates a large income for the economy it could be argued that as far as the average shooter is concerned game shooting is detrimental to their sport. Very, very few large game shoots encourage vermin and pigeon shooters onto their land and who can blame them, there is big money involved. The more land lost to game shooting the less vermin shooting there will be. However without representing game shooting BASC would be a lesser force.

 

As a keeper on a fairly large shoot I am able see both sides but I would ask the BASC when formulating policy not to loose sight of the little man who makes up the bulk of your membership. After all that's what your heritage is all about.

[graylag]

I THINK BASC IS NOT WHAT IT USED TO BE A LOT OF MEMERS ARE LOSEING FAITH I THINK MORE IN THE WILDFOWLING SIDE ANY WAY :blink:

[digger]

Are we forced to join the BASC ? Strange that we are not. If you are a member then rather than slag off our sport on a public forum get in touch with them, if you are not a member then what the hell does it have to do with you how they spend their members money ? If you were a fully paid up BASC member but now have issues the same applies, either form your own alliance or get over it.

Way to go to show how unified we arent :blink:

[graylag]

I WILL HAVE YOU KNOW DIGGER THE CLUB IM IN NEEDED BASC HELP AND IT WAS JUST NOT THERE I KNOW WE DO NOT HAVE TO BE A MEMBER OF BASC BUT THAY SAY THAY ARE THE BEST AND FRANKLY MY MAN I FOR ONE HAVE NOT SEEN ANY OF THE SUPPORT THAY SAY THAY GIVE TO THER MEMBERS AFTER ALL ONLY £8 TO£13 IS FORE OUR SHOTTING COVER :blink:

[anser2]

This is a very similar debate to one a few weeks ago in this forum. BASC in promoting shooting and encouraging more people from home and abroad to shoot can only have one effect to those of us who already hold shooting rights in a small island like the UK.

 

INCREASING THE COST OF RENTING SHOOTING.

 

 

I know this will happen in time anyway , but I do object to my BASC subs being used to push up the cost of my shooting . If an enterprising farmer can maximise his shooting rights then thats up to him , but its not my shooting organisations role to promote any policy that will increase my shooting rents.

 

In East Anglia there is very little land apart from nature reserves that is not shot over , and this shot over land is already attracting the attentions of shooters from abroad. I read on another shooting forum where a group of Italian shooters have out bid local shooters in the Broads. The affect of this policy of BASC can only make this sort of problem worse.

Edited March 10, 2008 by anser2

[Big_Sam]

I vote we delete all the posts from this thread that are from non-BASC members.

 

Then lets see if we disagree with what BASC are doing.

 

Go on Cranfield, you know you want to!

[markbivvy]

I vote we delete all the posts from this thread that are from non-BASC members.

 

read it again sam, some members are not to happy with the idea.

Edited March 10, 2008 by markbivvy

[Big_Sam]

Indeed, so that way we can get boths side from BASC members.

[Pirate]

Surely, anyone with shooting to sell will take Sterling as well as Euros.

 

If we use, and pay, for what we have ourselves, foreign shooters wouldn’t get a look in!

 

The BASC’s policies won’t please everyone, but for the overall good of shooting and conservation in Britain, they get my vote.

 

As for selling the family silver, I think we’ve done that already, without the BASC’s help.

 

Bias? Of course, I am a BASC coach, and am happy to be part of an organisation that puts the protection of Shooting in Britain, and the British Countryside, at the top of it’s list.

 

My Opinion.

 

Pirate:

[Jimbo57]

out of interest what vermin are they travelling that far to control?

 

Rabbits and woodpigeons. They will pay £80 a day to walk up a few rabbits or sit in a hide with half a dozen pigeion deeks out in front of them. So work it out for yourself - 6 guns at £80 with the agent taking half and the farmer getting half. Even if the agent only puts a party on for 50 days in the year, thats over £10,000 to the farmer. What chance does the local boy have against that sort of money. And that is what BASC seems to be determined to encourage more of.

[Big_Sam]

And rightly so, if like myself you get no pigeon shooting up here and thus have no gear.

 

You get to pay a small fee and they set up their kit in their fields and you shoot their pigeons. Win all round as far I can see.

 

Anything that brings money into the British economy is good news. Don't knock it just because you are loosing some free shooting, how many things are free in this day and age anyway?