clayman Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) CPSA have come up with a new logo for the 80th anniversary. I believe it comes fully online at the coming AGM, but already in use on letter headings and the website. Logo history: The CPSA used the crossed guns logo for many years and replaced it with the square logo affectionately known as the Beer Mat, sometime in the '70s. In 2003 this was replaced for the 75th anniversary with an "flying" orange clay with 75 in it, and the 75 was removed the next year. Some negative opinion on this was forthcoming at the 2004 AGM ( it was coined the Orange blob ), and the Championship badge image of the orange clay with wording in a circle around it was adopted. This has survived until now, and we have the fifth logo or variation coming into use in as many years. Whats your view on it? Edited March 14, 2008 by clayman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 I voted don't care because there wasn't a "waste of money" button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted March 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 To be fair, other than artwork costs, the cost of bringing in a new logo is pretty minimal. Traditionally, old stocks with old logos will be used up, and nothing scrapped. Things like championship badges are stock made 20 years ago with old logos, and the CPSA does not chuck them all out every time they change. Letter heads etc are used up and the new run has new logo - so costs are pretty minimal. The CPSA would be hoping image enhancement would create revenue ( say through sponsorship or increased membership sales) that would more than offset any costs. The principle is sound, but does the new logo properly reflect the image members would like associated with their organisation? That is the gist of the poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 I am never that convinced that "image" and logos impress members, or potential members, that much. Most organisations have their reputations forged by the service they give their members. It would be better if they concentrated on that, rather than worrying about logos and perceived image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 I know what the "CPSA" is, and that it means "Clay Pigeon Shooting Association" because I am a member. Anyone who does not already know this will be left scratching their heads. It looks to me that the CPSA have carefully lost the words "pigeon" and "shooting" from the logo which is something they have been trying to do without success and against the wishes of their membership for some time. I do hope the logo you have uploaded is some form of abbreviated logo and the real one will have Clay Pigeon Shooting Association prominently displayed. You say the costs are minimal. Minimal however is not "nothing" and I reckon will still run to many many thousands of pounds. What was wrong with the old one, and why not celebrate 80 years with a drive for getting the sport recognised? Oh, don't tell me, that path starts with a new logo <insert smiley with right hand up and down gesture> It is a meaningless logo that would more suit something in the atomic energy sector. Good old CPSA, glad to see nothing is a waste to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) You say the costs are minimal. Minimal however is not "nothing" and I reckon will still run to many many thousands of pounds. I reckon it will have been fairly astronomically expensive. These arty-farty design companies who employ spotty erks with an Art GCSE seem to think they can charge tens of thousands for this doodle. Look at what the Olympic Games thing cost It would have been better without the orange ring round the clay anyway. It's twirling round it in the wrong ******* direction The blue ring is OK, at least it's in the same plane as the clay If a clay was revolving like the orange ring suggests, I would want a "no bird" Edited March 14, 2008 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Cornholio Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) It looks to me that the CPSA have carefully lost the words "pigeon" and "shooting" from the logo which is something they have been trying to do without success and against the wishes of their membership for some time. Good point. I have noticed that, despite the wishes of their members, CPSA coaches often refer to Clay Pigeons as "Clay targets" and what was once known as "birds only" is now referred to as "targets only" As for the logo. If I had to have an opinion I would say loose the silly orange spinning ring thingy. Edited March 14, 2008 by The Great Cornholio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Am I bovvered? Pirate: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk shooter Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 (edited) Well judging by the number of votes, but not as many posts, I'll quite happily state that it is I that put "hate it". My reasons are simple. The cost is not minimal check out the recent finance report. The underhand way which the CPSA committee have tried to do away with the words Pigeon following their embarassing failure to change the name. The fact that as Mungler stated, those who were or are members know what it stands for,but those who aren't won't have a clue. Oh and for the record, I decided not to renew my membership in January and have had two phonecalls from them (unfortunately I was out and they were just messages), asking why I won't be renewing. Why not ask Catamong what his thoughts are seeing as he believes the Sun shines out the CPSA committees backside. SS Edited March 19, 2008 by Suffolk shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 It looks to me that the CPSA have carefully lost the words "pigeon" and "shooting" from the logo which is something they have been trying to do without success and against the wishes of their membership for some time. Couldn't agree more, all CPSA literature I read now refers to targets instead of pigeons and birds. It's the new democratic way that seems to have taken hold in this country - if it's not what the people want then do it anyway by stealth. As for the logo..........hmmm, let's see how long before it replaces the existing header, as far as I can see it's the only mention 'pigeon' gets on the site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 I voted "Don't care" because I don't think many people judge the organisation on it's logo. The orange disc doesn't actually look much like a clay to me, perhaps it's a bit like an orange battue, anyway who cares..?? At least it's not as bad as the dreadful 2012 Olympic logo, which looks like it was designed by a bunch of junkies whilst high on an LSD trip. The CPSA need to try and keep a stable management team in place and listen to the wishes of their members, not worry too much about a new logo. Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 I worked for a medium sized company that went through a logo change, believe me the costs (even after the design has been agreed on) are massive. Like Mung I think it looks like something to do with space travel, and nothing to do with shooting. Without wishing to 'blow smoke' I reckon Axe could have come with something better in half an hour on his PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Well I actually like it, it is modern and upbeat. But in all honesty I don't care. It doesn't really represent Clay shooting but then how many corporate logos do indicate the companys business? I agree that the CPSA should be promoting shooting sports as a whole and I will be attending the regional forum for the new NATSS on the 25th march. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden22 Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) . Edited November 20, 2008 by Maiden22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk shooter Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 The CPSA need to try and keep a stable management team in place and listen to the wishes of their members, not worry too much about a new logo. Cat. I agree Cat (Wow, did I just say that ) They should start by getting rid of the aussie who doesn't have a clue about British shooting tradition, stop trying to disassociate themselves from live quarry shooting, listen to the voice of the majority and re-think the academy side of things in terms of coaching. They should also look at providing more money to help out with expenses to those shooters who are promising and are representing their county, region, country or GB from Colts, Juniors, Men and Ladies plus Senior team. Changes to Logo's cost money on Letterheads, badges, magazines, advertising hoardings etc. and there's nothing wrong with the old (Current) one, as the saying goes, "It does what it says on the tin". More money should be spread down the class prize list and not to fund the so-called expenses of the likes of Boakes. I recently had a phone conversation with a high up county CPSA rep who told me a few things about last years account's, and whilst I cannot publicly state on here what they were about, all I can say is my so called stereo-typical view of the management was re-inforced. If I was still a member I would be demanding the truth over some of those expenses shown in recent accounts!!!! SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Wow, what a nice lively debate this poll has created! A few observation then - CPSA isn't made of money, and while there will have been a design costs and some internal costs in choosing the final artwork, this will not have amounted to the kind a mega budgets one reads about when BT or other PLCs change image / logo. Whether or not it is unsuccessful in doing so will be difficult to judge, but the purpose will have been to help attract corporate membership / sponsorship / and political respect form policy and decision makers, ir Govt , police, Olympic committee etc. There is similar thinking behind target vs pigeon. When lobbying the ignorant the distinction is important. We all know what a clay pigeon is, but its no urban myth that the anti-blood sports campaigners still think the CPSA is about shooting a breed of pigeon, - and you'll be amazed what happens if you advertise a Turkey shoot at Xmas!!. A top corporate sponsor may be happy to associate with an Olympic Target sport, while having reservations with Pigeons, even if they are inanimate. Simarly, when canvassing MPs etc at Westminster, there have been noted changes in heart from opposition to support when various MPs and members of the H of Lords have been educated to realise that the CPSA stands for a skilled target sport at which the UK excels, rather than game / live shooting that many urbanites simply do not understand. Aussie?? What Aussie - none at CPSA. Maybe you are referring to the (elected by membership) Chairman Terry Blaney who has a slight twang from down under as a result of spending some of his adult business life there - but he is still a true Brit by birth and inclination. Clayman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 So in summary, it will cost buttons and it's necessary to dumb down the labelling of the sport so that people don't think we actually shoot pigeons and as a result the sport will attract corporate sponsorship, widespread respect and the love of MPs. **** me I've heard it all now. How badly did the CPSA Board lose that vote on "Target" vs "Pigeon". Oh hang on, of course the board know far better than the idiot majority membership of CPSA. Silly me. Good job the board are looking out for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 I would add that if the CPSA spent more money supporting grass roots hay bale shoots (where each and every one of us learns and starts to shoot) it would have my respect. We have seen 2 posts on here within the week about local hay bale shoots closing down - any help from the CPSA? I have shot clays for every Saturday and Sunday for the last 2 years and in that time I have shot a grand total of 3 "registered shoots" for which I had to join the CPSA. The CPSA are not assisting the sport. On a final point, can you evidence how the branding of "target" to other "target" sports has helped at all? Do any of the "target" labelled sports attract support, sponsorship and the respect of government by labelling themselves "target"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk shooter Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 (edited) Oh hang on, of course the board know far better than the idiot majority membership of CPSA. Silly me. Good job the board are looking out for us. And that's what you pay your money for. The board listening to the majority of members, otherwise whats the point of a democratic vote, might as well be called a dictatorship. Its no secret that I have no love for the CPSA, but I do wish all our atheletes whatever discipline, or sport come to that, the best means of success in their chosen sport. However, under current management regieme, I cannot see how this is going to happen successfully and long term for them. Like all sports, success starts at grass roots level and not at the top where those already enjoying some form of success, sit unchallanged eventually to fade away or retire with no backup to match the standard they have achieved. (I'm thinking Faulds and Digweed in particular here). Granted self-training, hard work and perserverance and an element of natural ability are all key elements to success, but so is having good coaching, all inclusive travelling expenses (Not spending money, but hotel, flights, in country travel arrangements) whilst on international duty. Some of the stories I have read and heard about by those participating for our respective countries, beggars belief and its no wonder why our current crop of international stars all appear to be well off to enable them to compete. (This is not an eliteist or monetary rant, just an observation). If you check out the criteria for representing your country then you can clearly see the funds required to not only get you there, but to also sustain it. SS Edited March 19, 2008 by Suffolk shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 (edited) Sorry but I completely disagree, I you went out and did a Family Fortunes style survey (ask 100 people in the street) what a clay pigeon is? 90% of the people will know. Answers will range from ornament to "Isn't that what Suzi Quatro shot on BBC2 all those years ago) and then they will drift off in a Homer Simpson saying HHHHMMMMM SUZI QUATRO. The CPSA are trying to distance themselves from their Heritage and history so they are seen to be PC, They had to put it to a vote about changing their name and they lost. They still carried on regardless of the defeat and now refer to targets wherever they can. Christ even the BIG headline on their homepage refers to the national governing body of clay target shooting. One club I shoot at occasionally will not accept a scorecard marked with a K for a kill. As for a aussie, When I let my membership lapse a couple of years ago I had an Australian sounding guy phone me up and ask why I hadn't rejoined, When I started to explain to him how unhappy I was about the proposed name change he said that he had got to go and would call me back in an hour. I am still waiting. Now I have rejoined as it is quite simple they have you by the balls, If you want to compete at any sort of level then you have to be a member. I want to shoot the Essex team selection shoots so I had to rejoin. I am a member of BASC, NSRA, NRA and now the CPSA. It is plainly obvious that the CPSA want the NATSS to go ahead because they then get their own way. They loose the word PIGEON with no vote. Whether the new logo cost £10 or £100,000 it is still a waste of money which shoyuld be spent promoting the sport of Clay Pigeon Shooting and not lining some graphic designers pocket. Oh and another thing, where do the CPSA stand on using Bisley for the 2012 Olympics? Nowhere they are suggesting Dartford Shooting ground. Sod all the other shooting disciplines lets just look after ourselves. Put all the shooting and development into Bisley. It is afterall the home of shooting and will be a lasting legacy for all of us. Edited March 19, 2008 by martincavie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 The cost of a new logo could run into many £1000’s possibly 10’s of £1000’s if I know marketing and design companies. Why bother when most of the great well known global brands have had pretty much the same logo for donkeys years...take at look at Coke, IBM , Shell etc etc. A total and utter waste of money IMO and all done to pander to some marketing guru’s ego. Do I care NO ‘cause I’m not a member and never will be all the time the CPSA try so hard to distance themselves from live quarry shooting...don’t believe me then watch this space! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 As for a aussie, When I let my membership lapse a couple of years ago I had an Australian sounding guy phone me up and ask why I hadn't rejoined, When I started to explain to him how unhappy I was about the proposed name change he said that he had got to go and would call me back in an hour. I am still waiting. Pure class! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted March 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Ahh, got it - the "Aussie" is actually a South African called Bobby Watkins who is the membership development officer. His role is to visit grounds / fairs / venues etc with the CPSA logo-ed trailer and promote, and also he receives a list of lapsing members and calls them to encourage re-joining, or to record reasons for leaving. Olympics and Bisley. There is a formula for where an Olympic venue can be, and its within a defined radius ( by travel time) of the Olympic Village. Bisley is way outside that distance. Other than Woolwich Arsnel, the only possible venue is Darford, and if it was moved there, there would be a legacy - what is proposed at Woolwich will cost millions, be used for days, and dismantled. Nuthampstead put up fantastic proposal, but just like Bisley, its too far out and has no chance of any consideration. CPSA is doing everything it can to get a legacy, and that means Dartford, not Bisley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosspot Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 How far out of the Olympic village will the canoeists be travelling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 How far out of the Olympic village will the canoeists be travelling? 30km http://www.london2012.com/venues/broxbourne-canoe-slalom.php Brand new facility with a lasting legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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