darren m Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 please dont jump on me :yp: i really would like to try one for a week , to see if it would help stop Jack from running in and staying put when he's been told to . SO , if any one's got one to lend or hire out , or maybe sell , please post here.or e-mail me. many thanks Darren ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyni Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 If you are going to go down thet road and no-one on here can talk you out of it you then please do a lot of research and learn how to use one otherwise you could create far more problems than you first anticipated. I am not speaking out of personal experience as have never used one, just have read about the misuse of them on other forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Cheaper and better I`have used to good effect is a black widow catapult.I`ve seen 1or2 d!%$eads using elec collars and only making the dogs worse.I`m sure your sensible enough to use it responsibly.Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Pieman Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Darren, send a pm to New To The Flock. As our doggy expert I seem to remember he feels they have their uses. He will give good, honest advice :yp: PP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermin Dropper Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 h d, are you serious about using a black widow on a dog?:yp: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdfish Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Darren M Why did you buy an electronic dog? In all seriousness I would not do anything to my dog that I would not do to my kids. I am sure they have their place but you could risk losing the trust of your dog. He/She will obey because it fears discomfort or pain. Not through trust and a genuine will to please. Dont do it. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 VD yup just use small BB`s and not full stretch you only want to startle the dog and get it`s attention back on you.Try the catty on yourself 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermin Dropper Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 h d, I have felt the force of a black widow, from about 80' (25m) and it almost took my chuffin kneecap off, :yp: just hope you do use small bb's and at no where near full stretch. :yp: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 :*) mostly I missed but it got her attention,and yes the BB`s are V small! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdfish Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 If you are only getting her attention and not meaning to hurt would you be better off with one of thoses cheap ( 3 or 4 quid ) pistols that shoots multicoloured bb's. Once the dog has been plinked just the sound of cocking the gun will send it back to your side. It also eliminates the chance of pinging a bb down your dogs lughole at 100 mph in case you do get carried away with the catty. jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 :yp: some "people" think I should use 42gm of BB`s Cheeky B`s :yp: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted October 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 i see they are very unpopular , probably rightly so , but i dont want to torture the lad , only use it as a no dont move command ( stoping him from chasing off after pheasents). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 to see if it would help stop Jack from running in and staying put when he's been told to . No it wont !! Quite the opposite. If you use it and he responds to it he wont want to pick a bird up full stop. Get him on a long lead and a dead bird and spend some time in the field. You dont want him associating a pheasant with pain no matter how mild. FM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted October 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 FM -- he's been fine at picking up birds / rabbits during training, he's been great on the recall and stop whistle , but this was his first venture into the beating line , there were hundreds of pheasent on the ground , more than he as ever seen before. He totally disobeyed me and he knew exactly what he was doing , he even looked back at me before he ******** off , and still went , left me calling , and whistleing and looking a ****. Eventually came back , looking really guilty ( he knows it was not i wanted ). funny thing is , it was my wife who got him to come back , when he heard her shriek " jack get here", i thought this is a respect thing , so i throws him to the ground on to his side , knelt on him and bit him on his ear , still he yealped ( i did NOT hit or raise a hand to him , although i felt like it ). put him straight back on the lead and that was the end of the day . i just want to keep him close to my side and not run in , he is a very bold dog , with a good pedigree , just something seems to be missing :yp: Darren . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Hi Darren, I took my 18 month old GSP dog onto the beating line for the first time last Saturday, but I kept him on a long lead all the time. He's a very steady dog....usually....but when thrown into a mailstrom of running dogs and running birds I didn't want to take any chances. It's harder work keeping him on the lead, especially in the long game crops, but at least it gives him chance to get used to the madness slowly. Not sure if this was the right or wrong thing to do, but at least the keepers happy for him to go back again next week. Maybe it would work for Jack ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Have patience mate.. If he knows what he is doing wrong that is half the battle won. A few trips on the line on a lead sound like a good idea then you can physically restrain him when he takes a pull at a bird. I am sure he will soon know that to pursue flushed birds is a no. He just wants to bring em back to you and is keen to please. A couple of my previous dogs had their first few trips on the line while on a lead, nobody minded me breaking in an inexperienced dog this way. I bet there are very few dogs new to the line that are perfectly behaved on their first beats. I certainly dont know of many. FM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 I agree with you there Mike, in fact there were a few experienced dogs (The keepers included !!!) that messed up last weekend. At least three started the day working free, and ended up on the lead after the first beat ! No doubt down to it being their first shoot of the season after a long boring summer. Not sure if this is an option Darren, but we only have one picker up on our shoot, and she suggested that I work with her and her dogs for a couple of beats next week, there's far less distraction that way, and you can see potential problems before they arise, which you can't always see if your dogs in heavy game cover. Just another way of introducing a green dog (and handler in my case) slowly. Good luck with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadSpringer Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 i just want to keep him close to my side and not run in , he is a very bold dog , with a good pedigree , just something seems to be missing The only thing missing Darren is experience! For his first time out I think Jack did well as he only got away from you once. The only way he is going to get experience is by taking him each week, forget about being embarrassed, and concentrate on keeping him close and under control. The advice from Browning and Mike is very good; keeping him on a long lead would allow him to work a short distance in front whilst you still have control. As Browning points out it's not just inexperienced dogs that play up in the beating line, there is a lot of temptation even for the experienced dogs. Thick game crops can be a real trouble spot, it's easy to lose sight of the dog and the dog to lose sight of you, the dog then takes the easiest root and follows the line of the crop to the end. I always keep my dogs at heel in thick game crops to avoid them pulling on ahead (most other folks do too, we just make more noise :yp: ) Avoid using an E-collar as a quick fix, if you do decide to use one (Please talk to NTTF first as I believe he is experienced in their correct use) I think you will find you will always have to work him with one on. He will soon associate the collar with the correction and will know he's not going to be corrected when he's not got it on. For a little more than the price you would pay for a collar, you should consider sending him to a pro trainer for 4-6 weeks. Ask them to concentrate on getting him steady to game. I know you will not have him for beating for a a while but if you feel you are struggling, then this would be an option to give you a head start. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted October 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Thanks lads -- youre right , wise words as always. i'm going to take him again this weekend , put him on a long 25 foot lead , with choker chain this time , and i ,m not going to let him off this time either , i'll leave him like that a for a while. i think youre right the more he does the more he'll get used to it , i hope :yp: , :yp: we will see Darren . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remytherussell Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 What excellent constructive advise from all parties. I did hear mention from one of our handlers of some sort of aerosol attachment that goes on the collar. Give the dog a quick cold spray, quite harmless but then again not the ideal solution as mentioned above. For my part I could think of nothing worse than an electric shock while I,m having fun... :yp: RTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country_est Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Have got one of them electric collars. Bought it to stop the dog from eating ****. Not his **** but any dogs... :< With 2 kids about the wife said if he didn't stop then he would be a gonner. As he was a rescue / return to breeder dog I didn't want to just pass him on again so I tried one of the collars. Worked for what it was bought for. Would NEVER use it on the dog in the field. It is / was a training aid and NOT for field use IMHO. Dont even work him with his "house" collar on. have loaned it out to somebody who used it to stop thier dog from running out of the field where she kept her horses. Worked OK as a quick fix for that as well. trev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts