Dog insurance

[David BASC]

Guys,

 

I know many of you will have dogs, and many of you will have dog insurance.

 

Those of you that are members of BASC will read in the latest issue of our mag about my exploits getting insurance cover for my dog All,

 

The long and the short of it is this, many dog insurance providers will EXCLUDE cover if your dog in injured or taken ill while you are working it,

 

Please, if you do have dog insurance for your working dog double check with the provider that you are still covered when working the dog- please tell them if your get paid, even a few quid, or get paid in kind – a brace or tow- as this too can prevent cover. If they say you are then get them to confirm it in writing- you may need it!

 

I found that the top 4 – when I called them, all EXCLUDED cover!

 

I was speaking to a member today who read my article, he is insured with one of the top 4- and has been for just over 8 years. He has been paying £20 a month – that’s over £2000 in premiums. Based on what he read in my article he phones his insurer, to be told that he was NOT covered as he worked his dog on a shoot!

 

Please do not get caught out!

 

Best wishes

 

David

[bobt]

Good point david.

 

so when will Basc do a decent dog insurance?

[David BASC]

We already do and we have offered dog insurance for over 15 years - OK it is more expensive than the others - BUT it is only so because it also covers the dog when it is working, It covers accident AND illness, loss by theft & straying, etc.

 

David

[MC]

One thing it doesn't do though is lifetime cover.

 

My spaniel was covered by the kennel club until earlier this year, when I got the renewal through it was going up to nearly £30 a month. So I shopped around.

 

I phoned the number on the BASC card and was given a competetive quote. I took out the policy only to find when I got the policy through that it did not cover any reoccuring illness in the following years.

 

As my dog is only 31/2 years old I do not see this as a major issue this year but when the renewal comes up in march I will be changing to someone who does a lifetime policy.

[dustyfox]

One thing it doesn't do though is lifetime cover.

 

My spaniel was covered by the kennel club until earlier this year, when I got the renewal through it was going up to nearly £30 a month. So I shopped around.

 

I phoned the number on the BASC card and was given a competetive quote. I took out the policy only to find when I got the policy through that it did not cover any reoccuring illness in the following years.

 

As my dog is only 31/2 years old I do not see this as a major issue this year but when the renewal comes up in march I will be changing to someone who does a lifetime policy.

 

MC, Im a bit confused on what you saying, do you mean once the 12 month dog insurance is up they dont pay for it anymore or if you do renew with them and the illness occurs again they dont pay for it again?

[David BASC]

There are two levels of cover available under the BASC policy as follows:

 

Annual cover- this is the cheaper option. In this case treatment is provided for any condition the dog suffers from for up to 12 months after the first diagnosis. If the treatments needs to continue for more than 12 months then you need to pay up the difference out of your own pocket, it can also exclude recurring problems, so if the dog had a joint injury due to arthritis for example, it would be treated for 12 months only after that, own funds required – this is why it is cheaper.

 

The other level of cover is lifetime cover- this will carry on paying for treatments on an ongoing basis for as long as it takes- provide the cost stays within the annual limit.

 

For example- looking at my Springer, annual cover costs £16 per month lifetime cover costs £24 per month.

 

Insurance can be a minefield- I am pretty lucky I guess as I have been dealing with the industry for over 13 years so have picked up a few tip as you can imagine. But most of us simply assume (quite understandably) that when we buy an insurance policy to cover this that or the other, all is well,

 

Take time to look at the documentation BEFORE you part with your cash and ask as many questions as you need to make sure the cover provide is exactly what you want and need. Remember, insurance companies or their intermediate are governed by strict law that means they MUST give you a full disclosure of what is and is not covered before you pay up. Also, they must give you a copy of the full policy wording BEFORE you pay them – but you must ask for it.

 

Any questions, you know where I am

 

David

[MC]

DF,

 

DavidBASC has explained it well.

 

David,

 

Do you get preferential rates as you work for BASC? My springer is similar age to yours, yet your policy is cheaper than mine.

 

I would happily pay £24 a month for the lifetime cover and am going to change to Healthypets next year unless I get a decent quote form BASC.

 

You say that they must provide the policy wording upfront yet you have to ask for it. So in other words they don't have to. I explained to the lady I spoke to what I had at the time and what I wanted and she gave me a quote. Admittedly she offered various "Bolt ons" which were all additional cost.

 

I am paying around £22 a month now for the annual cover which was cheaper than the kennel club at the time but isn't in reality because I am not getting like for like.

 

I would like to change my cover to lifetime if this is possible, the cost is fairly insignificant to the welfare of my dog.

[David BASC]

No I don’t get preferential rates, the cost will vary depending where in the UK you are- some areas of the UK are much more expensive in terms of vet fees you see.

 

By law they have to ask you certain sets of questions typically to try to find the level of cover you want, and they MUST give you all the main inclusions and exclusions to the policy when you call.

 

They should make it clear that you are entitled to a full copy of the policy wording before you pay up.

 

I fully accept that the BASC policy will not always be the cheapest- in some areas it will in others it will not- BUT the message here is to please double check that the cover you are buying is the cover you need and to make extra sure that the cover applied to your dog when it is working.

 

David

[ferretman]

No I don’t get preferential rates, the cost will vary depending where in the UK you are- some areas of the UK are much more expensive in terms of vet fees you see.

 

By law they have to ask you certain sets of questions typically to try to find the level of cover you want, and they MUST give you all the main inclusions and exclusions to the policy when you call.

 

They should make it clear that you are entitled to a full copy of the policy wording before you pay up.

 

I fully accept that the BASC policy will not always be the cheapest- in some areas it will in others it will not- BUT the message here is to please double check that the cover you are buying is the cover you need and to make extra sure that the cover applied to your dog when it is working.

 

David

is it ever the cheapest!

[al4x]

probably even more important is if asked whether your dog works say no. Its an exclusion but if you find out after you've taken out the policy then who is to know. Its not exactly right but don't make life easier for the insurance companies especially as apart from the odd accident most conditions covered would happen whether you work the dog occasionally or not.

[David BASC]

Failing to disclose a material fact can invalidate the policy.

 

Remember the vet will be asked by the insurance company about the injury and the circumstances that led to it as will you.

 

Are you willing to lie on the application, lie when making a claim, and get your vet to lie as well?

 

David

[al4x]

If the accident happened while shooting which usually fall into two categories fence injuries and occasionally road accidents both of which are hardly just related to working and could happen anyway.

In practice the vet isn't in the business of investigating claims for the insurance company and is just interested in getting paid. I'd be more bothered if I was the insurers as to why vets charge one price if you're not insured and another if you are along with treatment you wouldn't consider if the dog wasn't insured.

 

I know where you are coming from David as you are essentially an insurance salesman but a lot of this is done by scaremongering and there will be dogs that go shooting occasionally insured by many companies that technically exclude them yet no doubt have had claims paid out. In practice disclosing you go out with your dog shooting opens you to insurers who charge far more for very similar cover but charge more just because they cover gun dogs

[dustyfox]

There are two levels of cover available under the BASC policy as follows:

 

Annual cover- this is the cheaper option. In this case treatment is provided for any condition the dog suffers from for up to 12 months after the first diagnosis. If the treatments needs to continue for more than 12 months then you need to pay up the difference out of your own pocket, it can also exclude recurring problems, so if the dog had a joint injury due to arthritis for example, it would be treated for 12 months only after that, own funds required – this is why it is cheaper.

 

The other level of cover is lifetime cover- this will carry on paying for treatments on an ongoing basis for as long as it takes- provide the cost stays within the annual limit.

 

For example- looking at my Springer, annual cover costs £16 per month lifetime cover costs £24 per month.

 

Insurance can be a minefield- I am pretty lucky I guess as I have been dealing with the industry for over 13 years so have picked up a few tip as you can imagine. But most of us simply assume (quite understandably) that when we buy an insurance policy to cover this that or the other, all is well,

 

Take time to look at the documentation BEFORE you part with your cash and ask as many questions as you need to make sure the cover provide is exactly what you want and need. Remember, insurance companies or their intermediate are governed by strict law that means they MUST give you a full disclosure of what is and is not covered before you pay up. Also, they must give you a copy of the full policy wording BEFORE you pay them – but you must ask for it.

 

Any questions, you know where I am

 

David

£24 a month for lifetime cover thats sounds like a good deal, is there a link with more details?

 

Thanks

 

DF,

 

DavidBASC has explained it well.

 

David,

 

Thanks

[Pipmoff]

I have just changed my dogs insurance and now pay £26 per month for 2 dogs (Rhodesian Ridgeback & a Boerboel) on lifetime cover. They are not working dogs though. This was through http://www.pet-insurance.co.uk/. I think they may also cover working dogs.

[David BASC]

I have spoken to pet insurance .co .uk and they confirm that working dogs are covered. This is one of the lowest covers I have found or working dogs, My Springer, lifetime cover, £12 a month!

 

I have been called many things but never an insurance salesman! Nice one! Yes I know you are correct that many dog claims probably try to slip under the radar, and I can assure you that insurers are pretty wise to the sorts of claims that they expect to see from pet dogs.

 

Also, with my knowledge of the industry I can tell you that all claims over a certain size, typically £1000 for dog insurance will be investigated. OK chances of making claim are small, I agree, although I don’t think it is scaremongering but **** law says a big claim will come along one day!

 

It does not take much to run up a £1000 bill, torn ligament for example can easily run to this, torn lung up to £4000.

 

Interestingly most injuries for working dogs are not wire / road related. Impalements, ligament damage, breaks, poisonings, are more common. Most pet dogs do not get injured but they do get sick.

 

Of course the other option is to self insure!

 

But the purpose of the post was to alert those of you who choose to buy insurance to make very sure it covers you for working dogs and covered you for all you need.

 

Ta

 

D

[Mungler]

I have just signed up for pet insurance through Tescos for £10 / month with cover upto £4k for each condition and no limit on age.

 

I think it highly unlikely that any claim I submit will be as a result of my dog working . Anything can happen in the garden.

[dustyfox]

I just did a comparison on pet insurance for my dog on moneysupermarket and the lowest one was £8.40 for my dog but it only pays £2000 vet fees, while if you pay £2 more and go with More than you get £7000 vet fees.

 

Do you know if More Than cover working dogs?

 

Thanks

 

Df

[andovian]

david you seem to be a clued up basc employee changing the subject slightly regarding the basc's begging letter to us members whats going on? you also say your pet insurance costs more than average so if the basc are charging all these extras why are we still being hounded for money? its not like the basc can say they are paying much for their premiums as buying in the volume they do it certainly amounts to no more than 5-6 quid per premium including that of the dog insurance

and just as a matter of interest how many members are in basc?

[Santlache]

I've never bothered worrying about specialist 'Working Dog' cover myself, as all it does is give the Insurance Company an excuse to hike up the Premium.

 

Standard insurance for mine.

 

The Russell in the Picture on my Avitar ripped the top of her leg open on some barbed wire a few weeks back while out working, huge great hole in the top of her leg and a nasty wound, but luckily she didn't do any muscle or internal damage.

 

Got her patched up at the vets after they took her in for the day, three other visits included with the usual drill for the insurance claim and it was all sorted out.

 

You don't have to say the dog's working, they are never to know and a dog is just as likely to do themselves an injury anywhere out in the country whether they be working or not.

 

Cheers

[Cushat]

We're curretnly shopping around for dog insurance and as David points out - it's a minefield. I'd personally rather pay a few quid more and know my dog is covered when working than have any niggling doubt that the insurers would be able to squirm out of a claim. What's the point in paying every month if there's a chance (albeit small) that you're not covered. God forbid, but what happens if your dog gets shot and needs some pellets removed - try telling the insurers that happened during a walk in the park!

 

I'm still waiting for my quote to arrive from BASC though and it's over a week since i rang - pretty poor service!

 

I have spoken to pet insurance .co .uk and they confirm that working dogs are covered. This is one of the lowest covers I have found or working dogs, My Springer, lifetime cover, £12 a month!

 

David - are you sure? I'd get this in writing, the first exclusion on their policy is:

 

Dog Breeds we are unable to Insure

Please see below a list of dogs we are unable to insure, we apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.

 

• Any dogs used for trade or business
  

 

I pick up with my dog, and I get paid (with the Estate paying tax on my wages so there's a record of it back to inland revenue if anyone wanted to check thoroughly enough) therefore she's used for "business" in the eyes of the insurers. Lots of policies don't exclude "working dogs", but they do exclude anything relating to getting paid. I'm certainly going to check out pet insurance.co.uk though

 

EDIT - just spoken to pet insurance.co.uk and you are NOT insured if you take any money for working your dog, regardless of whether you make a profit, it's the principle of taking a payment which exlcudes you.

Edited November 7, 2008 by Cushat

[David BASC]

Tesco do not insure working dogs - if you look an their web site gundogs are a specific exclusion

 

More Than , Sainsbury and Direct Line all told me they do not insure working doge either when i called them on the 16th September. Members have since called Tesco and others based on my article to be told again that working dogs are not covered.

 

As I say you can lie (I would not recommend it) - but if you get caught you will face a big bill! Attempting to gain money by deception, fraud, who knows what the consequence will be?

 

Yes I am 100% sure petinsurance.co.uk will insure working dogs, I saw this exclusion and spoke with them about this and they confirmed, after checking, that this does not include beaters & pickers up getting a few bob or a brace, or a pie & a pint. So we are OK.

 

Yes we get a commission from the dog insurance, gun insurance etc- these policies are not sold by BASC, but by the broker / underwriter. The commission percentage is not huge I can assure you - but still worth having. The few tens of thousands that we get from insurance commission pales into insignificance to the several hundreds of thousands it costs to build a communications centre.

 

We have just over 128,000 members

 

David

[andovian]

ok so 128,000 members paying an average of about 55 pounds equates to over 7 million pounds

where is all the money going? I fully understand that you get a small commision for the policies and I have been in business long enough to know you arent allowed to offer insurance unless you are a broker and are selling it as part of an overall membership plan (ie basc membership) it has been said by a few members that basc employees arent getting massive wages so where exactly is all the money being allocated to? keeping in mind this is just the figure based on memberships before you move on to additional services being marketed by basc!

there is an obvious mismanagement of funds laying within the organisation and I belive this should have been addressed prior to begging letters being dispatched to us members

 

on another note david perhaps you should be sat a bit higher up in the organisation as you seem to be the only person who makes themself available for questions - keep up the good work

[Cushat]

David - all I can go on if the phone call I just had with petinsurance.co.uk and the lady was adamant (after checking with her supervisor) that ANY payment for working your dog exlcuded you from their policy. This seems to totally contradict what you were told and doesn't give me much confidence that they have a consistent stance on working dogs.

 

On another issue - BASC insurance... I've just been informed by petplan (through the BASC number) that if you earn more than £50 per week (i.e. pick up or beat more than twice a week) then the underwriters will not take on your pet. I've just spoken to the BASC gundog dept who are investigating - I suspect there are plenty of BASC members who are out more than twice a week!!

 

Looks like if you try to be totally honest and open with the insurers (as is the legal obligation) then it's virtually impossible to insure your working dog!!!

[David BASC]

Your maths is pretty well on, but your accusation of financial mis-management is way of the mark mate. Please remember we are fully audited and the audited accounts are sent to every member every year. As such there is no way we can mis manage the money or the auditors would soon pick it up and the members would see. I am sure, indeed I know, that there are some very good business people within BASC membership, who would be more than smart enough to pick up any irregularities.

 

This is a bit off topic so lets stop it here or if you want start another thread.

 

David

[ferretman]

that letter was nice wot i got other day when basc was asking me to donate 40 pounds to them.