jimdfish Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 answer the question do you think the palestinians meant to miss with their rockets or where they willing to kill indiscriminately? please do not prevaricate. yes or no will suffice. yes or no. yes or no jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBravo Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Israel should just re take all palestinian land and remove any threats to them in the process. +1 Agreed, especially Islamic fundamentalist fanatics. We'll all be "infidel dogs" if this goes on much longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 this is still going and i havnt annoyed any1 yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonno243 Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Poof. What's wrong with vitriol, hatred & mentalist religious ranting? "Radical Islam stems from the twisted and bitter understanding of the Qu'ran by some "scholars" serving their own needs, not by the (rightly or wrongly) founded state of Israel. I can point you in the direction of the Christian equivalent of these passages in the Bible if you wish? The fact that these passages are ambiguous does not make it right to use them as justification for murder." And I can point you to many Christian Fundamentalists who hold equal distorted views of the Bible, and one only has to look across the water at the current and soon to be gone US President to see some of them. There are extremists in every religion. The fact also remains despite what you say, Israel is in breach of over 60 UN Resolutions, be they General Assembly or Security Council, yet we do nothing whatsoever to enforce them. Read my post properly. Those resolutions are Chapter 6 resolutions, and therefore advisory. They are not enforceable militarily. If islam is such a peaceful reigion then why are muslims nearly always involved in some war/terror somewhere in the world. Whether its against Jews, Christians etc I try to look at the whole situation objectively, and as such feel I should point out that (except for a few months) Britain has been constantly involved in armed conflict somewhere in the world for nearly 250 years. Therefore I feel that your arguement does not hold water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Same people, Different hats. Speaking to some muslim acquaintances of mine, you can sense the hate they feel towards the jews as a people, and they way they talk about them is sickening. I belive there is a very deep seated hatred between these two religious groups, even here in foggy London town... so i can't imagine how strong it is over there. There never going to get over that, not in my lifetime anyway. And i don't see it as the 'Wests' place to jump in on the conflict. But as has been said before. Wasn't this a Pigeon shooting forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I just found this true-life spy cam of how to resolve the mid east problem: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pcY541Yy3r8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 answer the question do you think the palestinians meant to miss with their rockets or where they willing to kill indiscriminately? please do not prevaricate. yes or no will suffice. yes or no. yes or no jim still no reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Don't you just love these "debates". santlache posts a war protest song link and end up being accused of being an Islamic extremist. I also think that Israel have gone too far in this excursion into Gaza and wonder just how brave they would be if they weren't sure of the 100% blinkered support they get from the USA, for all their actions. Over 1000 Palestinians have now died and surely none of us believe these are all fighting members of Hamas. I don't care how "justified" Israel supporters think they are, there can be no justification for such a loss of innocent lives in a conflict such as this. Israel is not fighting an army, they are fighting a population. Many ceasefires have been broken by either side, both blaming the other, but there has to be a diplomatic solution to this problem, not the destruction of a country. I am not anti semetic, pro Arab, or anything else. Having spent some time in the Middle East, including time in Israel and Palestine, I found all the people I met friendly, hospitable and very ordinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 If islam is such a peaceful reigion then why are muslims nearly always involved in some war/terror somewhere in the world. Whether its against Jews, Christians etc Who did the Israelis steal Palestine from by force, terrorist tactics and ethnic cleansing ? Or is Israeli terrorism OK in all your eyes ? As I have said, Hamas and groups like Hizbollah are a direct result of this Zionist terrorism. It's not rocket science. Lets look at it this way. Say the French came over here and claimed that England and Wales was theirs by right because they once controlled it 100O years ago in 1066 when William the Conqueror invaded and became King. Then in the process they used terror tactics to wipe out our villages and drove people out forcing us out of our homes and farms to make way for more Frenchmen. Then once the State was approved by the UN who said they could keep some of it, they were then supplied with a huge great arsenal by the USA, and they started to import more and more Frenchman and started to slowly steal more of the land bit by bit. Then after a while, because some of us stood up and fought against them, they built a huge great fence to keep us all in, denied us food and our water supplies and occasionally sent bombers or tanks over just so we knew who was in charge, killing thousands of innocent women and children in the process. Would you fight against them ? I sure as hell would. Yet this is exactly what Israel has done to the people of Palestine. Think about it, Gentlemen. The people of Palestine are only doing exactly what we would do, and indeed what our ancestors did when William invaded. As for your wars, I believe it was us who invaded Islamic countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, the later being the right thing to do in my opinion except they've ****** it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Thank you, Cranfield, at last a voice of reason and understanding shines through. Good on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trussman Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Who did the Israelis steal Palestine from by force, terrorist tactics and ethnic cleansing ? Or is Israeli terrorism OK in all your eyes ? As I have said, Hamas and groups like Hizbollah are a direct result of this Zionist terrorism. It's not rocket science. Lets look at it this way. Say the French came over here and claimed that England and Wales was theirs by right because they once controlled it 100O years ago in 1066 when William the Conqueror invaded and became King. Then in the process they used terror tactics to wipe out our villages and drove people out forcing us out of our homes and farms to make way for more Frenchmen. Then once the State was approved by the UN who said they could keep some of it, they were then supplied with a huge great arsenal by the USA, and they started to import more and more Frenchman and started to slowly steal more of the land bit by bit. Then after a while, because some of us stood up and fought against them, they built a huge great fence to keep us all in, denied us food and our water supplies and occasionally sent bombers or tanks over just so we knew who was in charge, killing thousands of innocent women and children in the process. Would you fight against them ? I sure as hell would. Yet this is exactly what Israel has done to the people of Palestine. Think about it, Gentlemen. The people of Palestine are only doing exactly what we would do, and indeed what our ancestors did when William invaded. As for your wars, I believe it was us who invaded Islamic countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, the later being the right thing to do in my opinion except they've ****** it up. Except Palestine was never a country so you can't compare it to the UK. This is boring and just like the conflict this topic is going to go on and on and on. You support Palestine, I support Israel and neither of us are going to change are respective view points as a result of this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Don't you just love these "debates".santlache posts a war protest song link and end up being accused of being an Islamic extremist. I think the zealot tag followed the citing of bin Laden as a role model and bombing London as an accepted form of Muslim protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I think we to stay out of this one gents.. we are fighting enough battles .. Our boys and girls, and our wounded are hardly supported for there service to country as it is.. And that **** upsets me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 still no reply I think the zealot tag followed the citing of bin Laden as a role model and bombing London as an accepted form of Muslim protest. Don't misquote me. I have never supported Bin Laden or claimed that it is a legitimate form of protest, I just said that these actions are a direct result of our foreign policies and uncritical support of Israeli terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Except Palestine was never a country so you can't compare it to the UK. My grandfather has two British Service Campaign Medals which have the clasp 'Palestine' written on them. Any maps pre 1948 refer to the land as Palestine. It certainly wasn't called Israel, and wasn't even called that when the Jews ruled the land over 2000 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 still no reply Sorry, too many to answer and I've done my best to keep up. Yes, their rockets were aimed at ILLEGAL Jewish Settlements and I am certain that their intention was to kill. Are their attacks Legitimate ? Yes, in my opinion they are only doing what you and I would do if it were us on the receiving end of Zionist terrorism all these years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Sorry, too many to answer and I've done my best to keep up. Yes, their rockets were aimed at ILLEGAL Jewish Settlements and I am certain that their intention was to kill. Are their attacks Legitimate ? Yes, in my opinion they are only doing what you and I would do if it were us on the receiving end of Zionist terrorism all these years So in your opinion if those rockets kill Israeli children it's justified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trussman Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Well maybe that's because it was controlled by the British as Mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 So in your opinion if those rockets kill Israeli children it's justified? I think its clear that any jews death by any means is justified in santlache,s eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonno243 Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 So in your opinion if those rockets kill Israeli children it's justified? I think its clear that any jews death by any means is justified in santlache,s eyes Guys, this appears to be getting a bit personal. Granted Santlache might be laying on the Zionism thing a bit thick (it's all a bit "39 Steps" to me) but at NO time has he tried to justify the killing of Jews. IMO those statements, and the feeling implied, are out of order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Guys, this appears to be getting a bit personal. Granted Santlache might be laying on the Zionism thing a bit thick (it's all a bit "39 Steps" to me) but at NO time has he tried to justify the killing of Jews. IMO those statements, and the feeling implied, are out of order. Dont agree at all...Any one that can come on here and justify the london bombings,osama bin laden and saddam hussein is gonna get a hard time dont you agree ? What is very apparent is his hatred of jews and it is throughout the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Guys, this appears to be getting a bit personal. Granted Santlache might be laying on the Zionism thing a bit thick (it's all a bit "39 Steps" to me) but at NO time has he tried to justify the killing of Jews. IMO those statements, and the feeling implied, are out of order. He condones the firing of rockets into Israel. Those rockets are sent to kill Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 So in your opinion if those rockets kill Israeli children it's justified? Yes I do, the people in the illegal settlements should not be there and they are at war with them. Every Israeli citizen is trained to use arms. If you would indulge me a moment, please, I would be most grateful, and it would also give you an idea of where I am coming from. And all those who think Israel is in the right, you certainly need to read this and consider it. This is also a serious side to this debate, so no English, Scots, etc jokes on my scenario please, I can see them already thank you Here we go............ Lets say the French or any nationality came to England in numbers, and then started a terrorist campaign against the English in a bid to take over our land. Then once they had been given some of that land by the UN, they were armed to the teeth by the USA - they then started to steal more of England, wiping villages off the map and building new settlements, diverting our water supplies onto their land and pilling all their waste on ours. They then used their huge arsenal, given to them by the US, to beat down the Scots, Welsh and Irish as they tried to come to our aid, with the US rendering them useless or calling them Terrorists if they tried to help us, but the French just carried on fighting the English and Scots etc if they tried to come to our aid, and carried on annexing more land. What would I do in such a scenario ? I sure as hell would fight the French and the Americans, and I would want to kill every one of the French invaders of our land. What would you do ? Would you just lay down and let the French take over ? Now transpose that to the 1940's in Palestine and the arrival of hundreds of thousands of Zionist Jews from Europe and America, all with the belief that the land really belongs to them and they want it all, when in fact they have no right to it whatsoever. But after very fortunately being given that land, they then start the scenario above with the French over the English and the rest of the Union, then we get what we have today in modern Palestine and the Arab peoples whose land it belongs to. Zionism is greed, it's also racist and has driven the Jews to be a Nazi-like race of people in order to obtain the goals of Zionism. Quite disgusting really, especially after what happened to the Jews under Hitler's Nazi Germany. If Israel wants to exist in peace, the only chance they have is to take what the the Arab League offered them two or three years ago, of full recognition of Israel and to reign in groups like Hamas and Hizbollah, but only if they pull back to the 1967 borders and vacate the illegal settlements. Give them to the Palestinians as a good will gesture, it would be a small price to pay for peace. They must then either absorb all the brainwashed extremist Zionist settlers, or send them back to Eastern Europe or America where they came from. This is the only realistic chance Israel will ever have of Peace, they should embrace it, and think themselves very lucky to get it, because if they carry on the way they are it will lead to only one thing - no end to the wars and ultimately another Jewish Holocaust, and nobody wants to see that again. This is how I get my stance on Zionism, not Jews, I do it with facts and putting myself in the position of the Palestinians, and what I would do if it were me. Thank you if you got this far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I think its clear that any jews death by any means is justified in santlache,s eyes Go ahead, if you are brave enough, and call me an anti-Semite. Sir, you are a coward. You have no proof from anything that I have written which says I hate the Jewish religion and I hate Jews. I'm an anti-Zionist, which is totally different to being an anti-Semite, and contrary to your suggestion I have a great respect for the Jewish religion and it's culture, just as I have for Islam, Hinduism and any of the other world religions. Many of you here clearly know very little about Zionism, for you there is a book which I could recommend, which is written by a Jewish writer, yes there are anti-Zionist Jews - shock horror...... The Founding Myths of Israel - Zeev Sternhell (Translated into English by David Mairsel) Another book is by a collection of different writers, several of them Jewish: The Politics of anti-Semitism - Edited by Alaxander Cockburn & Jeffrey St Clair The later easily purchased cheap on-line For Jihad and Islamic Extremism there are two easy light reads on the subject: Holy War (Inside the secret world of Osama bin Laden) - Peter L Bergen The other which is a cracker and certainly opens your eyes: Unholy Wars (Afghanistan, America and International Terrorism) - John Cooley. Read them and inwardly digest, then come back and talk to me on the subjects once you know what you are talking about. Believe it or not Israel feature heavily in all of them, and it doesn't quite paint the picture you all have of a struggling nation fighting for their survival, quite the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Guys, this appears to be getting a bit personal. Granted Santlache might be laying on the Zionism thing a bit thick (it's all a bit "39 Steps" to me) but at NO time has he tried to justify the killing of Jews. IMO those statements, and the feeling implied, are out of order. Thank you, Sir. I have no problem trying to justify my beliefs, indeed I have quite enjoyed this discussion. However, I do feel a little sad that there are so many on here who have no idea about the roots of the subject and have been clearly brainwashed by the sleek global PR machine of Zionism, and what has happened in the last 60 years in Palestine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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