rocksaplenty Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Can I ask why? I/we pay to stalk hinds in Scotland, nowhere near what their clients would pay to Stalk a stag, but if you ignore the trophy aspect the experience is just the same. Please don't get me wrong I still cull the does. But since my wife was pregnant I’ve become a bit of a softy when dealing with the garollch; not knowing if there’s going to be a foetus. But it needs to be done. Perhaps the argument shouldn't be that deer need culling, but that does need culling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 does definitely need culling, far more so than the males. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 They have their own full time stalkers, I am fairly sure now if you want to stalk on FC land you need to be DSC2 qualified. You should have to have a piece of paper to shoot them but they do need to be managed properly not just whacked on sight with whatever you have with you at the time. A happy medium can't be that hard to work out. I really dont think a piece of paper is the right calibre stuart ! A happy medium cant be that hard to work out !!They cant even decide on which calibre is suitable so adding another debate will be taxing(even with the new "piece of paper" calibre) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonno243 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 You should have to have a piece of paper to shoot them........ Respectfully stuartp, I have to disagree. Although not a detractor of the DSC, I firmly believe that a certificate does not a stalker make. It is a valuable aid, and necessary for venison to enter the public domain, but in my humble opinion the experience gained from shadowing a stalker (be they professional or not) is a far superior way of learning. I have noticed that a lot of people on this forum are vehemently against a system of competence appraisal prior to the grant of an FAC or SGC, surely enforcing a DSC qualification is exactly the same on a smaller scale? (i.e. you cannot shoot deer until you have passed a particular exam). No-one would insist on a test before being allowed to shoot pigeon or fox, why different for deer? Especially in light of the "population explosion". Jonno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaseone Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Jonno Would you then have numptys shooting them with .22 or .17HMR, I have not done a course but would not consider shooting Deer with these 2 But I bet some would, just because they can 'and they need culling so the telly said' and then how many wounded would you have? great time for the Antis. at least if you HAVE to do a course you will have some idea of right and wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) Jonno Would you then have numptys shooting them with .22 or .17HMR, I have not done a course but would not consider shooting Deer with these 2 But I bet some would, just because they can 'and they need culling so the telly said' and then how many wounded would you have? great time for the Antis. at least if you HAVE to do a course you will have some idea of right and wrong Would you then have numptys shooting them with .22 or .17HMR, why all of a sudden would some of the most law abiding people take to shooting deer with rim fires please. at least if you HAVE to do a course you will have some idea of right and wrong nonsense. Edited January 29, 2009 by markbivvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonno243 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Jonno Would you then have numptys shooting them with .22 or .17HMR, I have not done a course but would not consider shooting Deer with these 2 But I bet some would, just because they can 'and they need culling so the telly said' and then how many wounded would you have? great time for the Antis. at least if you HAVE to do a course you will have some idea of right and wrong I understand your point leaseone, but there is already existing legislation concerning this, the Deer Acts and the Animals Act spring to mind. Why waste time and (taxpayers) money drafting more legislation? Should we insist on a legally required course on shooting foxes because otherwise people will be shooting them with inappropriate calibres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaseone Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) Mark 'why all of a sudden would some of the most law abiding people take to shooting deer with rim fires please' because they think they can maybe and have not been taught the facts, you see people on this site mention shooting Rimfire at Deer. And I would do a course as I know naff all about Deer, where as Rabbits and fox are smaller so at least you can get a clean kill 99.9% of the time, and also there is a lot of info available about how to shoot and prepare. I could not imagine trying to prep a Deer and I lived on a farm for 20 years (learnt from Dad about bunnies and foxy) and went round with a Keeper. but no one has taught me about Deer. And as I said earlier you cannot get on a course as they are always fully booked so how do you learn? Edited January 29, 2009 by leaseone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 so how do you learn? from my early teens i used to ferret on some land that that belonged to a stalker. he,s been dead a lot of years. He knew more about deer and other wild life than any other person i knew. he had been shooting deer since he was a lad, he had never heard of dsc 1 2 or 3. i dont even think he could write his name. find a man like that , you will learn more from him than any course mate. as for people on here talking of deer with rimmies, i have not seen it. and all of the people i have had the pleasure to shoot with of here are above tricks like that as iam sure are the ones i have not shot with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustyfox Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 me knowing nothing about rimfires, and if I read correctly, you cannot shoot deer with rimfire rifle? Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodmedod.one Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 so how do you learn? from my early teens i used to ferret on some land that that belonged to a stalker. he,s been dead a lot of years. He knew more about deer and other wild life than any other person i knew. he had been shooting deer since he was a lad, he had never heard of dsc 1 2 or 3. i dont even think he could write his name. find a man like that , you will learn more from him than any course mate. as for people on here talking of deer with rimmies, i have not seen it. and all of the people i have had the pleasure to shoot with of here are above tricks like that as iam sure are the ones i have not shot with. Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trussman Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 me knowing nothing about rimfires, and if I read correctly, you cannot shoot deer with rimfire rifle? Why is that? They simply don't have the power and none of them are of a large enough calibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Which is why the shooting of deer won't nor should be handed out to all comers. If you don't know the law about calibre, you won't have the first idea about gralloching and lymph gland inspection and what notifiable diseases to look for, you obviously haven't done DSC level 1 and again obviously haven't completed the health and hygene course, no I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the call come giving all untrained people the go ahead to cull the over population of Deer, they are afrter all protected by act of Parliament and people wonder why there is naivety over the subject when simple questions are answered like that. I dont know what the minimum calibre is - I'd like to know, but it doesn't mean that I am about to go out with my .177 CO2 pistol and start shooting red stags with it, does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaseone Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I agree Mark/Hodmedod, but if you do not have that fellow Surely you have to have some form of Training or Guidance? and the DSC is the only way people can get it? or am I wrong? I imagine that most paid for Deer hunts are done by people who would not have had the life experience you have, so the DSC is the only way for them I am very lucky in that i have a Pro Stalker i could go with anytime but choose not to as I feel that Bambie is to nice (I had to shoot one on my Sniper course many moons ago) and prefer small things now even though we have 27 Munts on my permission, mr+mrs farmer like the look of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 mr+mrs farmer like the look of them So do a lot of stalkers. that's why we have to many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaseone Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Mark Perhaps I could Instruct on how to shoot a Rifle and you do the Messy gutting and Stalking bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 get your ar£e up here mate. there,s roe coming out of the rafters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 If you don't know the law about calibre, you won't have the first idea about gralloching and lymph gland inspection and what notifiable diseases to look for, you obviously haven't done DSC level 1 and again obviously haven't completed the health and hygene course, And why should he? I haven't done a DSC or a health and hygiene course (through choice not ignorance by the way). But then again I don't sell the deer I shoot. Sorry mate but I find your post a little elitist. You don't know the person who posted the question so you don't know their circumstances. He could be a butcher or work in a slaughterhouse for all you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 little elitist what some dsc1 holders, never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scout Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Interestingly I have just put in a variation for a 243 for deer. This is my first deer rifle, but to get to this point I have been out on several stalks with a chap who is willing to act as my mentor should it be required. He is a very experienced stalker and has / is teaching me from the beginning and I'm sure this education will go on for a while yet. I am interested in doing the DSC1 course but feel that I can learn more from this experienced stalker, and then go on the DSC1 course and prove / ratify that I have been taught properly. I don't think further legislation is required and that we as hunters / shooters should exercise the control that we have always done to ensure our sport is carried out safely and humanely, give the Antis no fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I am informed that deer poachers use a moderated .22RF. As for FAC, I doubt they bother. There are still rifles around which have not made it onto the licensing system. I believe that a .22 rifle was used to shoot someone dead in Bristol recently, the murderer claimed it was a "community gun" which was stashed in some bushes on an estate in Bristol and used for rabbits. I don't believe him ! Needless to say it was an unlicensed gun whatever the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonno243 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Interestingly I have just put in a variation for a 243 for deer. This is my first deer rifle, but to get to this point I have been out on several stalks with a chap who is willing to act as my mentor should it be required. He is a very experienced stalker and has / is teaching me from the beginning and I'm sure this education will go on for a while yet.I am interested in doing the DSC1 course but feel that I can learn more from this experienced stalker, and then go on the DSC1 course and prove / ratify that I have been taught properly. I don't think further legislation is required and that we as hunters / shooters should exercise the control that we have always done to ensure our sport is carried out safely and humanely, give the Antis no fuel. Well said Scout, you have about summed it up in a nutshell. The DCS courses I see as a valuable tool in the stalkers arsenal, but to make it a mandatory requirement for the culling of deer is just slightly alarming. It would possibly pave the way for a raft of new possible legislation covering "trained hunters" as they have in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonno243 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Which is why the shooting of deer won't nor should be handed out to all comers. If you don't know the law about calibre, you won't have the first idea about gralloching and lymph gland inspection and what notifiable diseases to look for, you obviously haven't done DSC level 1 and again obviously haven't completed the health and hygene course, no I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the call come giving all untrained people the go ahead to cull the over population of Deer, they are afrter all protected by act of Parliament I am feeling slightly pedantic tonight. Up here in God's Country we have no specific minimum calibre stated in law. Our restrictions are as follows: A bullet designed to deform in a predictable manner of not less than 100grains with a muzzle energy of not less than 1750ftlbs and a muzzle velocity of not less than 2450ft/sec. (Covers all deer species. A different set of values applies for Roe Deer only) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Please don't get me wrong I still cull the does. But since my wife was pregnant I’ve become a bit of a softy when dealing with the garollch; not knowing if there’s going to be a foetus. But it needs to be done. I fully understand, and extending the doe season has only made that situation worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 still regarded as a pest/vermin by some. so why would them shooting deer under these conditions need any idea about gralloching and lymph gland inspection and what notifiable diseases, unless of course they where for human consumption. i know folk who shoot them in vast numbers and they are not eaten. I hardly think it's being elitist being concerned about notifiable diseases, namely TB and Anthrax, both of which deer can carry. If the deer were not for human consumption what would you do with them? All the DSC 1 courses can't be full, otherwise noone would have it. Because of my passion for stalking I have had to do DSC 1 and 2 and the Lantra Hygene course. I'm a truck driver, hardly an elitist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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