David BASC Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Dear All, From another thread I see that one or two of you have had or are having problems with your FLD when applying for Sect 1 for fox and deer - same gun, same calibre same land. The grant for fox goes through but the deer has conditions attached like mentoring etc. If this applies to you can you let me know with deatils of where you are / which force you have to deal with. Ta David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cushat Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 David, As you know I've had this with Thames Valley (exactly as you describe - same ground, rifle, calibre etc) but Matt has a copy of my FAC and is dealing with it now. Regards, Cushat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I've got Fox and Deer for my .223 The deer wording is something like.. "deer stalking when accompanied" - Accompanied by who/what? Does my dog count? I've got friends whose read "deer stalking when accompanied by an experienced Deer Stalker acting as a mentor" but mine says nothing like this.. just Accompanied No restriction on the use for Fox Hertfordshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Thank you very much guys keep them coming... Does your dog have DSC level 1? (Dog Supervisory Certificate) if not then I am afraid he will not , unless he too is mentored by another dog who has the appropriate level of knowledge as defined by the police I guess! Seriously it is always useful to get from the FLO who counts as a supervisor / mentor – let me know. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 be interesting to see what mine comes back as Gary as we've both got the same FEO, i put in for .223 for fox and deer. phoned the firearms office yesterday, they said it had all been done and popped in the post that morning. unfortunately i'm now in Ireland until Tuesday. will let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 herts seem pretty laid back, if its the same FEO he seems to class foxes as vermin according to my mate who asked on his grant a year ago, we of course could be guilty of needing too much clarification on tickets. I get the feeling they like things to be less than clear as it gives all concerned a bit more leeway. Of course this could come back to bite but I've yet to see a case. When my brothers license expired while they were processing renewal all he got back was don't worry we've got a backlog you're fine, then when they lost the application and 6 months had expired he finally got it sorted but there seems a bit of a lack of concern down at HQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 basically then, it's a lottery.. You should see the spelling mistakes on my FAC too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 they didn't even stamp mine when they sent it out, I had to phone up and ask if it was meant to be a rather embarrased woman asked for it back as soon as I could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I'm waiting for my licence to be returned after sending it off to get my 'supervision while stalking' removed for my .308. I have also asked for permission to shoot fox and small ground game with it. Will this only be on land where deer are present? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubby_uk Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I am waiting for a reply to my application. When I spoke to them before they said .243 for fox no problem but deer would need an escort. I held .22 for years so if I'm competent with that and I can shoot fox with a .243 I can't understand this deer restriction. I will see when they come round and let you know what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) I can't help thinking its FEO's being "educated" by various organisations that training is needed for deer shooting. Yet you don't need any to shoot one with a shotgun (under the right conditions to remain legal) really doesn't make sense though as all they should be interested in is the users ability and need to own a centre fire rifle. To start getting picky on matters relating to I assume hygeine etc seems to be a bit out of their areas of expertise. Edited January 30, 2009 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 And i can assure you that BASC is NOT educating the police that training is needed for stalking! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I've got fox & deer for my .243 with, as Gary mentioned "deer stalking accompanied by an experianced stalker" Herts I also asked my FLO if he could open up my ticket, he said that would not be a problem, but he would have to clear all the land. The problem with this is, the amount of land that I have permission on is vast & varied , you would need 2 days driving round from plot to plot. And if I get a call to deal with a problem fox taking little Tommys guinea pigs from the back garden will he have to come out & clear that as well? The problem with this particular FLO is he is notoriously bad for getting back to you Obviously I wouldn't consider the .243 SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I've got fox & deer for my .243 with, as Gary mentioned "deer stalking accompanied by an experianced stalker" Herts I also asked my FLO if he could open up my ticket, he said that would not be a problem, but he would have to clear all the land. The problem with this is, the amount of land that I have permission on is vast & varied , you would need 2 days driving round from plot to plot. And if I get a call to deal with a problem fox taking little Tommys guinea pigs from the back garden will he have to come out & clear that as well? The problem with this particular FLO is he is notoriously bad for getting back to you Obviously I wouldn't consider the .243 SS That does not make sense ?The whole point in "open ticket" is so YOU can ***** the land to see if its safe,thus negating the need for your FLO to clear the land every time you go somewhere new to shoot. I think you must have mistaken what he said ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 No I'm not mistaken, he said "no problem with granting me an open ticket, but all land would need to be cleared" he asked me to get together all the details of land I had permission on & permission letters (some of the land is verbal)? & we'd go round & he'd assess it? SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 If you have a closed ticket the land you are shooting on must have already been cleared, if you get your ticket opened you can clear any new land you get yourself (if it is safe) I don't think your FEO understood the question, or there is a misunderstanding somewhere along the line. (we should stop derailing the original thread as well ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipmoff Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Well I had no problems with Cumbria police I had Deer added to my ticket. No mentoring or dsc just a phone call to the farmer to confirm we did have permission to shoot the deer on his land then I had it approved and a slot for a 6.5x55 added for deer and fox. My cert was back with me within a week of being posted for the variation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cushat Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 No I'm not mistaken, he said "no problem with granting me an open ticket, but all land would need to be cleared" he asked me to get together all the details of land I had permission on & permission letters (some of the land is verbal)? & we'd go round & he'd assess it? SS I think in this instance Stealth Stalker is referring to opening his ticket up meaning removing the condition which states he's got to be accompanied when stalking, rather than getting a fully open ticket. It would be common for the police to retain the standard Home Office condition which stated that he could only shoot on land approved by the Chief Constable for each piece of land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 my Suffolk cert for .223 says Fox,,,,,, and Muntjac and CWD as prescribed under the Deer Act 1991 etc, no restrictions stated.... I have a Rifle Safety Training cert so not sure if that has any bearing on things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 David et al... just got mine back (see grr where's my fac!) no mentoring conditions on my .223 ".223 rifle and ammo to which this cert relates to may also be used for stalking CWD or Muntjac and for zeroing on ranges, or on land deemed suitable by chief officer and over which the holder has permission" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) David My ticket was due for renewal last November... On my renewal for my 223 i wrote FOX / VERMIN AND SMALL DEER WHERE APPRPRIATE meaning CWD and MUNJAC.. FEO came to collect my paperwork had a quick read through to check i had missed nothing and said " we will not give you vermin as that is overkill " I explained about having to carry more than one rifle and then leaving one in the motor if we have to walk the land his answer was "if you are out with the 223 foxing and see a rabbit just shoot it no one will know" Not wishing to get into an argument i said no more and my ticket came back 223 fox only no mention of deer or vermin... So i didn't pursue the matter as we do not have CWD and MUNTJAC in this area yet... Edited February 10, 2009 by hawkeye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweepy Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 There is no logic to any of the police force firearms departments.I had to be mentored for the first year with a .243(my mentor only got his 243 6mths before me). Was also told that if I told by my FEO that if I wanted to shoot Fallow they would refuse me a 243 and insist that I applied for a minimum 270. Is this a case of the police making up the laws as they go along Sweepy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusk2dawn Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 my Suffolk cert for .223 says Fox,,,,,, and Muntjac and CWD as prescribed under the Deer Act 1991 etc, no restrictions stated.... I have a Rifle Safety Training cert so not sure if that has any bearing on things Hi Im about to put in for a CF variation and several updates, ammo, small deer etc. Has anyone from Kent renewed lately and what was the wording used please. As Stuart says I dont want to derail the thread so PM if you think we are derailing but there must be many Kent shooters wondering as I am. Rgds D2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macnab Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Sussex Police For my 2008 variation for 6.5 x 55 mm I can do what the hell I like for fox (well you know what I mean) but for deer I have a named mentor for Sussex and 'a professional stalker' when in Scotland. Named mentor is a pain as I live on the land I want to stalk and don't want to have to bother a mentor at short notice, so I have taken the only other path which seems available and am doing DSC1 next month. I know there are loads of arguments for and against but my personal experience is that I have learned a lot already from reading the course material but am ****** off that I have to take a week off work and pay several hundred pounds to do it (which comes out of other stalking time and budget). I will still need my mentor for the finer points of gralloching and carcass prep, despite having a go on reds in Scotland over the years. Some middle ground would seem sensible, so if you can show the Police a reasonable amount of previous stalking experience then you shouldn't have to have a mentor or DSC1. My game book with photos, times, dates, weights etc would be a fair start. Which reminds me, I did the deer butchery course at River Cottage late last year and thought it was fantastic. If you live not too far away and your other half is pestering you for present ideas point her that way. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubby_uk Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Yep, as I thought. I have to have a mentor for 6 to 8 deer. Trouble is I don't know anyone else who shoots so that's me stuck. Anyone want an apprentice? I have the land ready but no mentor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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