bullet boy Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 This Thread is getting really Silly now!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiff-TRG Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) Erm so at a nominal 1000m/sec1 mile =1500m approx =1.5 seconds flight time the ****** might move PS remember to allow for the spin of the earth too Lol, for my load to make the 1,760 mark, its more like 3.165 seconds in the air If your really into this style of shooting expect to pay a reasonable amount on kit and then alot more on ammo for practice and range fees. Edited June 17, 2009 by Tiff-TRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted June 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) Pavman it is simply a different kind of skill, fieldcraft or whatever you want to call it. So many factors come into play at long range, it becomes a sort of art-form in getting them all right and achieving the hit. If you haven't tried it, don't knock it. For me my next barrier is to get a 1 mile rabbit I can understand very well the skill of a very long shot, its called target practice at cards placed in the distance Indeed this thread started out of a debate of various claims of long kills with the HMR, the view many inc myself take is why test your long range skills on Animals? vermin or not quarry respect is surely a foremost consideration and a clean humane dispatch should I venture to suggest be what we all aim to achieve in the field, if Mr Rabbit could talk to his executioner I suspect he would be willing to ask the Axe man for a quick and painless death, rather than he take a long run with a blunt blade and cause needless suffering should the blow be missplaced for any reason Quote "many factors come into play at long range" I am not judging your ability or any others for that matter, but I do respectfully question the motive Edited June 17, 2009 by pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiff-TRG Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I guess its a question of ethics...somewhere out side of university papers I tend not to venture.....However I will add I almost exclusively shoot rabbits at longer ranges. As long as you wait for them to present a front/end on shot, the odds of a wound are very small. Once you've seen the damage even a 'glancing blow' from a bullet weighing 10+ grams will do, you will see how wounded animals (like those oftern found at some pheasant shoots) are rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I guess its a question of ethics...somewhere out side of university papers I tend not to venture.....However I will add I almost exclusively shoot rabbits at longer ranges. As long as you wait for them to present a front/end on shot, the odds of a wound are very small. Once you've seen the damage even a 'glancing blow' from a bullet weighing 10+ grams will do, you will see how wounded animals (like those oftern found at some pheasant shoots) are rare. Why sit a long way off and wait for the rabbit to turn the right way etc etc when you can be 60-100 yards away and shoot it with a rimfire? How many get away because they havent presented the shot you need? I'm not having a go at you, but it just seems to me like setting up a punt gun in your hide and only firing at groups of 20 pigeons or more. It might give you a chuckle but will hardly do the pest control job you promised the farmer. ZB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiff-TRG Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) I'm not having a go at you, but it just seems to me like setting up a punt gun in your hide and only firing at groups of 20 pigeons or more. It might give you a chuckle but will hardly do the pest control job you promised the farmer. ZB It doesn't all have to be high numbers pest control...The farmers don't mind if now and then, we sit out and wait, shooting 20 rabbits instead of 100 with a lamp... Their just more than happy that we turn up. Often they will come along for a watch (initially out of disbelief) and quite enjoy the show :-) Edited June 17, 2009 by Tiff-TRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiff-TRG Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) I should have added that this type of shooting only makes up 10% of the shooting I do. Partly down to pure topography/safety and also I'd be broke very quickly throwing £1.50 at every rabbit I saw.... It does however make the closer shots much more easy and provides a good way of field testing my kit and myself. So when a deer appears at 250yards, I have the knowledge and importantly confidence in my kit to carry out a good clean shot. Edited June 17, 2009 by Tiff-TRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I should have added that this type of shooting only makes up 10% of the shooting I do. Partly down to pure topography/safety and also I'd be broke very quickly throwing £1.50 at every rabbit I saw.... It was this aspect that made me wonder (you did say most of your shooting was at long ranges). ZB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiff-TRG Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 It was this aspect that made me wonder (you did say most of your shooting was at long ranges). ZB Ah sorry, should have said outside of 'regular' shooting, I spend the rest of my time stretching my legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Good curious and informed points are being made in this thread and some tricky to satisfy questions are being answered. The longer range bit will often get most hunters curious at some point, why for example do we go from a 12 ft lb air rifle - to fac air rifle - to .22 subsonic - to HMR - to small C/f then onwards and upwards? The quest for "more/further/faster/better/bigger" is with man in all walks of life from climbing trees to well - why do some people climb mountains when hills would do? When I first started shooting as a boy I had an airsporter. After several years set aside from shooting I recommenced about four years ago with a pcp. As I got better at it I wanted and did what it takes to get more - then justify more... the circle continues I guess except that ill health has made me turn down my sights by quite a margin. Then came increased manouvreablity and ground covering ability with a 4WD. That gets me where my lungs now can't - and it also allows me to choose selective locations for a perfectly rested, braced against the seat/steering wheel/window/door frame relaxed shot from an elevated position - or off the roof with a bipod. Anyone with a Shogun based car who has tried shooting forwards from the gap between the door mirror and the window frame will know it's as good as a bench rested shot on a calm day because the upper body and arms are also braced, though wind can move the car. The totally rested and relaxed, "better than laid up prone" position at totally unaware quarry is something that has to be tried or seen to be believed. Remember too that the distant shooter has ample time to set up the shot and range the distance at his leisure. After the shot any remaining quarry has nothing else within hearing or eyesight distance to alarm it - so it goes about it's feeding while we set up the next shot. I'll be happy to help somebody try this if they want to get in touch - bring your own C/F so no one gets in trouble with his conditions. I'm sure most of us will agree we all miss sometimes - but the main culprit for a miss is usually our breathing, incorrect range calculation or a premature shot taken in case the quarry does a bunk. I rather suspect more shots at closer ranges are missed than longer ones because there is - in my opinion - more pressure to take the shot before the quarry detects the shooter. Above all I say there are many ways to get the end result - in my case it's usually crop or grass preserved by virtue of a dead rabbit being unable to consume it. I wouldn't try a 250 yard HMR shot - nor a 500 yard 17 rem shot on it. For what it's worth - my main shooting times are nocturnal which rules out long range as a main feature of my shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 A picture paints a thousand words so they say - it's virtually self supporting and if you faff around enough you can pad it up or down if you feel so inclined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Dave, I find that a bit of mutilated pipe-lagging, approx 1" thick and applied to the wing mirror with black and nasty, gives a consistent base off which to shoot. The mirror on my Disco is just the right shape and height for shooting off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I look forwards to seeing the 500 yard 243 report..... I still think the majority of the skill in stalking is getting close to the target...not hitting it from 500 yards.... IMO... Gixer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) 1.5 inch at 500 yard small enough for you,2 x 4 shot groups shot back to back,the one on the right was shot before I adjusted for wind drift good enough for a fox and deer wouldnt you say and yes theres a lot of skill invloved shooting a target or a deer at 500 yards just like there is a skill getting in close,proablem with close you end up mising more as the shot is sometimes rushed unlike a taking your time on a longggggggggggg shot I can do both and enjoy both long and short shots Edited June 19, 2009 by Ackley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) so basically a headshot rabbit is on awesome Edited June 19, 2009 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Very impressive, wonder what the deer or fox are thinking about when they stand still and wait for you to "adjust for wind drift"..... Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LXX73 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I don't think theres any dark art to long range shooting it just takes practice and knowing what your rifles capable of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Very impressive, wonder what the deer or fox are thinking about when they stand still and wait for you to "adjust for wind drift"..... Regards probably having a ncie time going about there business un aware anything is happening around them,by the way it only takes about 2 seconds to adjust for wind,less than what it takes for you to get off your belly trying not to scare the beast to get your "rushed" shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I don't think theres any dark art to long range shooting it just takes practice and knowing what your rifles capable of. try it mate not as easy as you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Fair point...so how come you hadn't taken the "2 seconds" prior to firing at the calipered target? I'm not arguing that it can be done, i know this can be done on paper, my argument was that it up's the chances of a badly placed shot on living quarry. And i can see no reason why anyone has to rush a shot because they have stalked in closer, the target shouldn't know you are there if it's done right. Regards, Gixer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LXX73 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 try it mate not as easy as you think I've done and do plenty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I've done and do plenty you should know then its not just point,squeeze and hope for the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Fair point...so how come you hadn't taken the "2 seconds" prior to firing at the calipered target? I'm not arguing that it can be done, i know this can be done on paper, my argument was that it up's the chances of a badly placed shot on living quarry. And i can see no reason why anyone has to rush a shot because they have stalked in closer, the target shouldn't know you are there if it's done right. Regards, Gixer. I shot both groups to check the wind drift adjustments were correct,its called "field testing" something that is the most important thing to do if attempting long range shooting yes a bad shot can happen I am not disputing that,but when you line up to take a long shot ALL the conditions must be correct or you dont do it but also you forget to say a bad shot can be taken at short range through rushing or a bad rest or the beast seeing you at the last min,Ive done it and anyone who hasnt is lieing its 6 and two 3s you do what you feel is correct for the condition you are in,persoanlly I can do both long and short range stalking,my last trip I took 18 beast in 2 days in snow up to our knees,foot stalking was impossable only way to kill them was long shots. the longest shot was 465 yards the shortest 20 yards. now have stalked with people who cant hit 4 inch at 100 yards,you do what your capable of no need to put someone down because you cant do it yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LXX73 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 you should know then its not just point,squeeze and hope for the best I didn't say it was. But if a person can get the basics down, get a good ammo/rifle combo, then it just down to practice. With this there's no reason why anybody can't be a competent long range shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Ackley, You wrongly assume i'm putting you down because i can't do it...... nothing to do with that, it's the higher chance of an error i disagree with, but you are happy enough with that..... I personally think 465 yards in snow on any deer species is asking for trouble but you knock yourself out son.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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