Newspaper vendor who died at G20 riots

[jammie*dodger]

He wasn't trying to get home after a day at work. He was living in a hotel (more of a doss house from the description) after being seperated from his wife. They'd got seperated due to his drinking problem which he had apperently just finished his rehab. Guess that didn't work too well, huh? He'd apparently spent most of the day drinking when he'd decided the protest might be more fun. Does sound like he went looking for trouble and I guess he found it.

 

JD

[Carter59]

simple then.....go home...don't hang around in front of a load of riot cops

 

It wasn`t at all simple for Ian Tomlinson ........ he was trapped inside the police cordon ....... nobody was allowed to leave for several hours.

 

He had no choice but to "hang around in front of a load of riot cops" because the riot cops penned him in and would not let him pass. They call it "kettling".

 

When he did try to leave, he was thrown to the ground and beaten.

 

Odd, isn't it, that an incident that took place in the financial centre of the most heavily surveilled city on earth has not been captured on CCTV?

 

No doubt the cameras suffered from the same mysterious malfunctions that afflicted the cameras at Stockwell station the day Jean Charles De Menezes died.

 

Perhaps they should buy a more reliable make of camera, like Sanyo

[death from below]

do you believe everything you read in the papers........it would appear so.....unless you were there.....if that was the case then i would give you a bit of credit.....but I doubt it

[Carter59]

He wasn't trying to get home after a day at work. He was living in a hotel (more of a doss house from the description) after being seperated from his wife. They'd got seperated due to his drinking problem which he had apperently just finished his rehab. Guess that didn't work too well, huh?

 

Ian tomlinson was a recovering alcoholic who lived in a room at St Mungo`s hostel near Smithfield. He`d spent the day working as a newspaper seller and was trying to get back to his room.

 

He'd apparently spent most of the day drinking when he'd decided the protest might be more fun. Does sound like he went looking for trouble and I guess he found it.

 

Despite the slurs disseminated by the Sun and the Daily Mail**, there is no evidence whatsoever that Tomlinson had been drinking that day ...... his workmates are adamant that he was sober. Nor is there any evidence to support your assertion that he was looking for trouble ...... his movements in the critical time frame are entirely consistent with those of a man trying to *avoid* trouble and leave the area.

 

 

 

** Exactly the same kind of slurs that were spread about Jean Charles De Menezes.

 

"He was running away from the police and jumped the ticket barrier." No he wasn`t, and no he didn't.

 

"He ignored a shouted order to stop." There was no shouted warning.

 

"He was wearing a thick and bulky coat despite the warm weather." He was wearing a denim jacket.

 

"He was an illegal immigrant." De Menezes was living and working in the UK legally.

 

I expect plenty more in the same vein about poor Ian Tomlinson. It`s what the Met do when they screw up and someone dies ...... they cover up, lie and smear.

[markbivvy]

I expect plenty more in the same vein about poor Ian Tomlinson. It`s what the Met do when they screw up and someone dies ...... they cover up, lie and smear.

its a government thing.

[Carter59]

do you believe everything you read in the papers........it would appear so.....unless you were there.....if that was the case then i would give you a bit of credit.....but I doubt it

 

I live in London and work in the City. These events took place about 1/2 a mile from my workplace. I have spoken to three people who attended the demonstrations. My views on this matter are not gleaned from the tabloid press. You said, or implied, that Tomlinson was somehow looking for trouble because he was *hanging around in front of riot police.* The simple point I am making is that Tomlinson was unable to leave the area because he was trapped by the police cordon. Nobody was allowed in, nobody was allowed out, for hours. They call it *kettling.* Twice he tried to cross the police lines to get away from the demonstration, and twice ...... at least ...... he was thrown to the ground and beaten.

 

Ian Tomlinson was a vulnerable member of the public who needed help and protection.

 

Perhaps if those coppers who violently assaulted him had given him an aspirin and a drink of water instead he`d still be alive today.

Edited April 13, 2009 by Carter59

[kdubya]

I expect plenty more in the same vein about poor Ian Tomlinson. It`s what the Met do when they screw up and someone dies ...... they cover up, lie and smear.

its a government thing.

 

remember Stephen Waldorf? the guy in a mini that was stood at traffic lights in LONDON the two bent cops who shot him where charged with attempted murder, but cleared of all charges yet this is what one of the said at the time of the shooting? and they say we are in safe hands oops another pink thing just flew over? oh and like menendez who was murdered by the police it was "mistaken identity" incompetent twerps!

 

Waldorf recounted that after being shot, he fell out of the open car door, at which point a police officer pressed the barrel of his revolver between his eyes and said, "Okay, cocksucker," before pulling the trigger. Finding that he had already used all his ammunition, the officer then pistol whipped Waldorf until he lost consciousness.

 

Ian tomlinson will be smeared and disbelieved as was Waldorf, I would have more respect for the incompetent **** if they would admit their mistakes rather than lie and smear to keep the blame off themselves.

 

KW

[magnamaniac]

I live in London and I work in the City. These events took place about 1/2 a mile from my workplace. I have spoken to three people who attended the demonstrations. My views on this matter are not gleaned from the tabloid press. You said, or implied, that Tomlinson was somehow looking for trouble because he was *hanging around in front of riot police.* The simple point I am making is that Tomlinson was unable to leave the area because he was trapped by the police cordon. Nobody was allowed in, nobody was allowed out, for hours. They call it *kettling.* Twice he tried to cross the police lines to get away from the demonstration, and twice ...... at least ...... he was thrown to the ground and beaten.

 

Ian Tomlinson was a vulnerable member of the public who needed help and protection.

 

Perhaps if those coppers who violently assaulted him had given him an aspirin and a drink of water instead he`d still be alive today.

 

I looked at the saw footage as everyone else, I never saw him beening beaten on the ground !

 

As the same unit rendered first aid after it appeared he had collapse, perhaps people should point fingers at the idiots throwing missiles at the police whilst they were attending to him, and as the unit was under attack the ambulance was not allowed to that area by its control as it was unsafe.

 

One question that needs answering is why was Tomlinson not responding to police instructions ?

 

Woody

[magnamaniac]

remember Stephen Waldorf? the guy in a mini that was stood at traffic lights in LONDON the two bent cops who shot him where charged with attempted murder, but cleared of all charges yet this is what one of the said at the time of the shooting? and they say we are in safe hands oops another pink thing just flew over? oh and like menendez who was murdered by the police it was "mistaken identity" incompetent twerps!

 

Waldorf recounted that after being shot, he fell out of the open car door, at which point a police officer pressed the barrel of his revolver between his eyes and said, "Okay, cocksucker," before pulling the trigger. Finding that he had already used all his ammunition, the officer then pistol whipped Waldorf until he lost consciousness.

 

Ian tomlinson will be smeared and disbelieved as was Waldorf, I would have more respect for the incompetent **** if they would admit their mistakes rather than lie and smear to keep the blame off themselves.

 

KW

 

Lets keep the Waldorf and Tomlinson incident seperate. The Waldorf showed the poor training and cavalier attitudes armed officers had in that era. They were both cleared by the courts, but the internal investigation found against them, but allowed them to resign. There is now way that the two officers could be defended for their actions.

 

But before we hang the police, let the investigation take place.

 

 

Woody

[kdubya]

Lets keep the Waldorf and Tomlinson incident seperate. The Waldorf showed the poor training and cavalier attitudes armed officers had in that era. They were both cleared by the courts, but the internal investigation found against them, but allowed them to resign. There is now way that the two officers could be defended for their actions.

 

 

 

Two officers, John Jardine and Peter Finch, stood trial for attempted murder and attempted wounding but were cleared of all charges in October 1983.

 

The pair remained in the police force but were barred from firearm duties.

 

 

seems the menendez affair proves things have NOT improved one iota

 

KW

[Carter59]

I looked at the saw footage as everyone else, I never saw him beening beaten on the ground !

 

Eyewitness testimony of the earlier assault on Tomlinson:

 

One witness, Anna Branthwaite, a photographer, described how, in the minutes before the video was shot, she saw Tomlinson walking towards Cornhill Street. "A riot police officer had already grabbed him and was pushing him," she said. It wasn't just pushing him – he'd rushed him. He went to the floor and he did actually roll. That was quite noticeable. It was the force of the impact. He bounced on the floor. It was a very forceful knocking down from behind. The officer hit him twice with a baton when he was lying on the floor. So it wasn't just that the officer had pushed him – it became an assault. And then the officer picked him up from the back, continued to walk or charge with him, and threw him. He was running and stumbling. He didn't turn and confront the officer or anything like that."

 

Unfortunately this cannot be confirmed by CCTV footage as the cameras all had mysterious malfunctions that day.

 

As the same unit rendered first aid after it appeared he had collapse, perhaps people should point fingers at the idiots throwing missiles at the police whilst they were attending to him, and as the unit was under attack the ambulance was not allowed to that area by its control as it was unsafe

 

You seem to have fallen victim to Met disinformation and hyperbolic tabloid reporting. One empty plastic bottle was thrown at the officers attending the dying man, whereupon the bystanders angrily turned on the bottle chucker and forced them to desist. Any delay imposed on the paramedics was unnecessary.

 

One question that needs answering is why was Tomlinson not responding to police instructions ?

 

He was, in a slow, shambling sort of way. According to his friends that was normal ...... he walked with an odd shuffling gait. Remember, he was only moments from death when he was thrown to the ground in Cornhill. If he did indeed die of a myocardial infarction, it is quite likely that the heart attack had already begun and the poor fellow was in fact already dying at this point. You could hardly expect a man in his condition to sprint away from the police line like Usain Bolt.

 

I await with interest the results of the second autopsy.

[Cranfield]

It always surprises me how well informed people are ( or pretend to be), that freely admit to not being eye witnesses to events.

 

I wasn't there, I don't believe all I read in the newspapers, I don't visit conspiracy theory websites and I have no hidden agenda.

Therefore I will reserve comment until the matter is investigated and dealt with by the Courts or whatever other jurisdiction is appropriate.

[kdubya]

sonic why don't you bring it?

 

or would you cock that up eh?

 

seems you don't like opinion other your own biased view its called free speech mate, but hey the police are slowly working on that one eh? one of my best mates was a copper he packed it in and left the country he is now in Australia as a copper seems they still value honesty and fairness over there, strange that as they started of as convicts, seems our lot the way they are going will end up as convicts unless they learn to stop lying cheating and being bigoted unreasoned oafs tools of a corrupt bunch of inept politicians who want us to be "number 6" all round?

 

anyway like I said I am a fair and reasonable man and would give you an airing face to face, as opposed to your sniping via your tripe writer.

 

KW

[Carter59]

What if that the G20 bloke had been abusing officers and spitting at them at different points of cordons and being abusive and threatening towards them, refusing to move on and being obstructive. He told one officer that he had a knife and had his hands in his pockets and as he walked away muttered, the officer told him to take his hands out of his pockets, the bloke refused and said " I will stab you all". The officer then reacted the way he did.

 

If somebody had made threats of that kind then surely the proper response would be to place them under arrest?

[fullbore]

If somebody had made threats of that kind then surely the proper response would be to place them under arrest?

 

 

At the time the alleged incident took place, and not let the perpetrator "shamble" away to be "arrested" later

[p@cman]

Remember, he was only moments from death when he was thrown to the ground in Cornhill. If he did indeed die of a myocardial infarction, it is quite likely that the heart attack had already begun and the poor fellow was in fact already dying at this point. I await with interest the results of the second autopsy.

 

 

Indeed. I think that is very likely.

[magnamaniac]

Lets keep the Waldorf and Tomlinson incident seperate. The Waldorf showed the poor training and cavalier attitudes armed officers had in that era. They were both cleared by the courts, but the internal investigation found against them, but allowed them to resign. There is now way that the two officers could be defended for their actions.

 

 

 

Two officers, John Jardine and Peter Finch, stood trial for attempted murder and attempted wounding but were cleared of all charges in October 1983.

 

The pair remained in the police force but were barred from firearm duties.

 

 

seems the menendez affair proves things have NOT improved one iota

 

KW

 

Sorry to burst your bubble they resigned, I studied it for my degree. Shouldn't take your info from wikipedia, its edited by people like me lol.

 

Woody

[kdubya]

Sorry to burst your bubble they resigned, I studied it for my degree. Shouldn't take your info from wikipedia, its edited by people like me lol.

 

Woody

 

fortunately I do not take my information from wiki as I know its full of inaccuracies usually put in by smart ***** such as your self my info was taken from the police files on the case and the BBC I suggest you contact them immediately and correct them of their miss informed ways.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/2530649.stm

 

Cheers KW

[Bagsy]

Odd, isn't it, that an incident that took place in the financial centre of the most heavily surveilled city on earth has not been captured on CCTV?

 

No doubt the cameras suffered from the same mysterious malfunctions that afflicted the cameras at Stockwell station the day Jean Charles De Menezes died.

 

I love conspiracy theories

[kdubya]

I love conspiracy theories

 

 

so do I the one about the winter clothing, the running, the vaulting of turnstyles, and the un heeding of the shouted warning, was a cracker?

 

oh and of the course the witnesses who conspired to say non of the above happened. oh hum

 

KW

[magnamaniac]

Eyewitness testimony of the earlier assault on Tomlinson:

 

One witness, Anna Branthwaite, a photographer, described how, in the minutes before the video was shot, she saw Tomlinson walking towards Cornhill Street. "A riot police officer had already grabbed him and was pushing him," she said. It wasn't just pushing him – he'd rushed him. He went to the floor and he did actually roll. That was quite noticeable. It was the force of the impact. He bounced on the floor. It was a very forceful knocking down from behind. The officer hit him twice with a baton when he was lying on the floor. So it wasn't just that the officer had pushed him – it became an assault. And then the officer picked him up from the back, continued to walk or charge with him, and threw him. He was running and stumbling. He didn't turn and confront the officer or anything like that."

 

Unfortunately this cannot be confirmed by CCTV footage as the cameras all had mysterious malfunctions that day.

 

 

 

You seem to have fallen victim to Met disinformation and hyperbolic tabloid reporting. One empty plastic bottle was thrown at the officers attending the dying man, whereupon the bystanders angrily turned on the bottle chucker and forced them to desist. Any delay imposed on the paramedics was unnecessary.

 

 

 

He was, in a slow, shambling sort of way. According to his friends that was normal ...... he walked with an odd shuffling gait. Remember, he was only moments from death when he was thrown to the ground in Cornhill. If he did indeed die of a myocardial infarction, it is quite likely that the heart attack had already begun and the poor fellow was in fact already dying at this point. You could hardly expect a man in his condition to sprint away from the police line like Usain Bolt.

 

I await with interest the results of the second autopsy.

 

1. CCTV in the area were attacked by the rioter, I know to a civilian conspiracy lover this seems strange, but somestimes a cigar is just a cigar. But don't worry the independent police compliants committe have a video recording from the camcorder carried by each unit in the area.

 

2. The whole area at the time was a hot spot of distubances. Thats why the ambulance was so slow coming as ambulance control will not allow quite rightly their staff in to a danger zone.

 

3. If he was have an MI at that point, he was dead, even if he was in a cardiac unit, with a doctor and hocked up to all those wonderful machines tax payers money pays for, he'd have a 50% chance. In reality he had 1 minute where getting a AED on to him might have saved him and its a big if.

 

4. Also I have just rewatched the guardian footage, and I couldn't find any evidence of him being hit after he had been pushed.

 

So lets wait for the IPCC to investigate, and lets stop being paranoid

[Bagsy]

so do I the one about the winter clothing, the running, the vaulting of turnstyles, and the un heeding of the shouted warning, was a cracker?

 

oh and of the course the witnesses who conspired to say non of the above happened. oh hum

 

KW

[/quote

 

We're not discussing that case. What's supposed to have happened to the CCTV in this case?

[magnamaniac]

fortunately I do not take my information from wiki as I know its full of inaccuracies usually put in by smart ***** such as your self my info was taken from the police files on the case and the BBC I suggest you contact them immediately and correct them of their miss informed ways.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/2530649.stm

 

Cheers KW

 

Ah, so you have gone through the bbc news archives and taken a page that illustrates a single day, the investigation was strung out and as I remeber took place on 85, they resigned that year if memory serves or possible 86.

 

I do not appreciate being called a smart ****, I have been quite polite in my entries.

 

Woody

[kdubya]

Ah, so you have gone through the bbc news archives and taken a page that illustrates a single day, the investigation was strung out and as I remeber took place on 85, they resigned that year if memory serves or possible 86.

 

I do not appreciate being called a smart ****, I have been quite polite in my entries.

 

Woody

 

don't take it personal I have called many smart ***** its a northern thing? and believe me I have been called a lot worse myself, perhaps I get to involved when I feel that some try to defend that which is seemingly indefensible,but perhaps its because i was brought up to be honest and open unlike it seems most of our politicians and top brass in the police,

 

cheers KW

[magnamaniac]

don't take it personal I have called many smart ***** its a northern thing? and believe me I have been called a lot worse myself, perhaps I get to involved when I feel that some try to defend that which is seemingly indefensible,but perhaps its because i was brought up to be honest and open unlike it seems most of our politicians and top brass in the police,

 

cheers KW

 

Good gravy I'm going to have to agree with you on the bit about politicians and top brass in any service. But I sometimes wonder after 18 years in uniform is it worth it. I have been stabbed, burnt, run over and poisoned and I can't even list how many injuries I have gotten, but all I want to see is that police officer get a fair hearing.

 

Riots are bloody stressful, and all the training in the world cannot prepare you for it. Lets wait for the IPCC report !

 

Woody