Glenshooter Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 My 15 yr old lad has been shooting sporting for about 2 years and gets reasonable scores - normally early to mid 40s in a 50 shoot and 75 in a 100 bird today. I don't shoot clays myself so have no personal experience to draw on. What is really frustrating is watching him hit the first 2 or 3 pairs spot on - and then miss 1 or 2 followed by more misses. I have not been hugely inspired by the quality of the shooting lessons that he has had in the past so am reluctant to throw more money at a series of lessons when perhaps all he needs is more practice and experience. He cleared 3 stands today so sometimes he's on form. Which makes it all the more frustrating to see him 'throw' away birds that aren't necessarily difficult. He believes that his mount is consistent and doesn't really know why he misses. I could understand it more if he hit none of them but to hit the first half stand consistently and then lose it - is what happened today on a few stands. Any experienced shots recognise this sort of thing and can offer advice? Or do I have to be more patient and keep providing the cartridges, petrol and entrance fees!! Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter De La Mare Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 I'm very guilty of exactly the same thing. Only thing I suspect is that once you've smoked the first two pairs you tend to get a little complacent and assume that you've cleared the stand when you have 3 more pairs to go, and don't pay as much attention. A little mental routine to follow before each pair helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 mental thing as much as physical could be trying to hard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 They say 90% of shooting is in your head. I find it very difficult to maintain concentration. There don't seem to be any type of presentations that I can't hit, but I usually end up dropping odd ones and twos, resulting in scores between mid 70's to mid 80's which don't seem to get much better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicW Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 I believe it's definitely a concentration thing.You kill the first two pairs,your brain says 'this is a doodle so I don't have to try so hard'. Wrong,you have to try even harder and concentrate,treat every pair as a new challenge. It's why a lot of shooters don't like 5 pair stands,you have to concentrate for longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrowboy Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 To be honest I think it's you with the problem , you seem to be expecting too much from the lad . Those would be deemed very respectable scores by most shooters on here I would think . Time is on his side , and sooner or later it will all click into place . Two years sounds a long time but if you only shoot 50 /100 birds every other week then thats no time at all . You pushing him will only result in lack of interest on his part , just be there and encourage him . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beretta Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 going off his scores hes doing very well, but it is his concentration thats lacking. if hes hitting the first couple of pairs out he obviously has a decent ability to read the targets and set up for them correctly. once you have hit the first pair it can get boring as you have to do everything exactly the same for the remainder of that stand, if you dont you will miss(as he is doing) he has to learn to concentrate. this only has to be for 2 min max whilst in the stand but not that easy to do, as many will know. if hes only been shooting 2 years, well, he has a lot to learn yet and it will come if he wants it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 To be honest I think it's you with the problem , you seem to be expecting too much from the lad . Those would be deemed very respectable scores by most shooters on here I would think . Time is on his side , and sooner or later it will all click into place . Two years sounds a long time but if you only shoot 50 /100 birds every other week then thats no time at all . You pushing him will only result in lack of interest on his part , just be there and encourage him . Thanks for your attempt at helping. However, you can't have an insight into my lad's conversations with me before, during and after the shoot. He is the one that is getting despondent - and fyi, shoots a lot more frequently than every other week. And was told, in a coaching sort of way, by the shoot organiser today that he really should be getting higher scores with his experience etc etc But I guess you were trying to be helpful although your assumption is mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddan Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 (edited) And was told, in a coaching sort of way, by the shoot organiser today that he really should be getting higher scores with his experience etc etc wow doesn't sound a very fun type of shoot. I would be chuffed to bits to get those sort of score. Clearly it is a concertration or pressure thing (as in going to get 10/10 if i hit this one), I sometimes do the same and I often let the potential of a sporting 10 put me off. Dan Edited May 17, 2009 by reddan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 wow doesn't sound a very fun type of shoot. I would be chuffed to bits to get those sort of score. Clearly it is a concentration or pressure thing (as in going to get 10/10 if i hit this one), I sometimes do the same and I often let the potential of a sporting 10 put me off. Dan Thought the same myself- but think he was trying to sell his professional coaching/teaching services. But I was a little perturbed for my lad at the time as I was in earshot. Really useful replies. I will give him as much opportunity to shoot at different grounds as I can as as frequently as he wants. The only downside is that when he's shooting clays, I'm not shooting rifle but in a few years, he will have other things to do at a weekend!! But what I'm not hearing is a lot more money to be spent on lessons! Any more opinions would be appreciated. Thanks for those so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyoftheboy Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Thought the same myself- but think he was trying to sell his professional coaching/teaching services. But I was a little perturbed for my lad at the time as I was in earshot. Really useful replies. I will give him as much opportunity to shoot at different grounds as I can as as frequently as he wants. The only downside is that when he's shooting clays, I'm not shooting rifle but in a few years, he will have other things to do at a weekend!! But what I'm not hearing is a lot more money to be spent on lessons! Any more opinions would be appreciated. Thanks for those so far. Glenshooter.... worth a trip & the money to a top quality coach? Bidwell? somebody like that? at least someone of that experience may be able to point out whether technique or concentration.... & at their level, also give some excellent advice on concentration.... just a thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky T Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Thought the same myself- but think he was trying to sell his professional coaching/teaching services. But I was a little perturbed for my lad at the time as I was in earshot. Really useful replies. I will give him as much opportunity to shoot at different grounds as I can as as frequently as he wants. The only downside is that when he's shooting clays, I'm not shooting rifle but in a few years, he will have other things to do at a weekend!! But what I'm not hearing is a lot more money to be spent on lessons! Any more opinions would be appreciated. Thanks for those so far. Morning Glenshooter, If you're looking for a relatively inexpensive option to improve his concentration check out a book called "With Winning in Mind" by an Olympic Gold Medalist shooter called Lanny Bassham. It's a sound investment, especially if he is going to be in the sport for many years to come Good luck! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted May 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Thanks again eveyone. Bought the book from Amazon. We had a lesson with him last year and he was great. Just that it's a bit of a hike for us and getting school hols, and me to get off work is a bit tricky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky T Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Thanks again eveyone. Bought the book from Amazon. We had a lesson with him last year and he was great. Just that it's a bit of a hike for us and getting school hols, and me to get off work is a bit tricky! More than welcome. Let us know how he gets on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.C. Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 You are describing the classic case of a young shot trying to improve without regular guidance from someone with more experience . The need for some high quality coaching has already been mentioned - go by personal recommendation rather than qualifications . You will find that tuition needs to be on a regular basis . A single lesson rarely makes much difference other than to provide a " quick fix " solution to a problem .You need to learn the basics in a methodical way otherwise you will never achieve consistencey .The cost can be a problem , I accept , so it would be worth trying to find a more experienced shot for him to shoot with on a regular basis as well . If you ask around I am sure you will find someone willing to give him a hand . There are a lot of good books and videos out there . My personal favourites are from these people : http://www.ospschool.com/index.html The books and videos will cost a bit , but they cover the sort of problems your young man is having and provide a comprehensive course to follow . Having tried the rest I found them helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted May 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 You are describing the classic case of a young shot trying to improve without regular guidance from someone with more experience . The need for some high quality coaching has already been mentioned - go by personal recommendation rather than qualifications . You will find that tuition needs to be on a regular basis . A single lesson rarely makes much difference other than to provide a " quick fix " solution to a problem .You need to learn the basics in a methodical way otherwise you will never achieve consistencey .The cost can be a problem , I accept , so it would be worth trying to find a more experienced shot for him to shoot with on a regular basis as well . If you ask around I am sure you will find someone willing to give him a hand . There are a lot of good books and videos out there . My personal favourites are from these people : http://www.ospschool.com/index.html The books and videos will cost a bit , but they cover the sort of problems your young man is having and provide a comprehensive course to follow . Having tried the rest I found them helpful. Thanks to you as welll TC. Emailed Gil and Vicki in your link to ask for their recommendations! They have such a number of video/publications, it's hard to choose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Perhaps you need him to change his perspective. When you're starting (like me) hitting a pair is an achievement. When he's hit the first couple of pairs he thinks he's got it cracked. He should realise that now he should be _expected_ to hit every pair. His target is to clean the stand, so he shouldn't relax after the first few. ? Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 The weather was foul yesterday Glen, where abouts were you shooting? It's sounds like concentration, as someone who has none when it comes to clays I can feel his pain. But that would assume he is doing the same thing every time, he he varies his technique from clay to clay then forget that bit. I would say I dropped 10-15 birds yesterday that were no different to the ones I hit before, but it was lashing down and by half way round all I wanted to do was get to the pub to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Careful Stuart, The mighty catamong will be along in a minute to accuse you of making excuses. Although wanting to get to the pub is probably the best one there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicW Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 It is during discussions like this that knackered old farts like me realise how we envy youngsters their advantages of eyesight and reaction time.They are able to pick up and break targets almost before they have left the trap. Vic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beretta Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 you dont have to be able to shoot quickly to be a good shot. the better shots seem to have all the time in the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 (edited) Morning Glenshooter, If you're looking for a relatively inexpensive option to improve his concentration check out a book called "With Winning in Mind" by an Olympic Gold Medalist shooter called Lanny Bassham. It's a sound investment, especially if he is going to be in the sport for many years to come Good luck! Nick Glenshooter My sig line comes from the title of the first chapter. Its much more than concentration, its about creating the self image of a winner ! That more than anything else will improve your scores, if you go to a shoot expecting to fail, then dont be surprised when that is exactly what happens, the winners go to the match expecting & believing they can win & thats what you have to learn to do. The 6cd set from Mental Management Systems, Lanny's company is also a sound investment, I play it in the car a lot. The book is not big but its impact on how you shoot can be huge. I used it to improve my scores & win matches in my chosen sport. Worth every penny & some. N Edited May 18, 2009 by neil smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted May 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Thanks Neil. Hope to have it before the weekend - only cost me £17 on Amazon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicW Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 you dont have to be able to shoot quickly to be a good shot. the better shots seem to have all the time in the world Don't they just,now we are back to technique again. Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I'm 16 and my main problem is consistency. I shoot alot better on instinct and generally kill the first pair or two no problem, but it's after that when I start thinking about what I'm doing and trying to repeat it that I muck things up big stylee. A classic example of this was walking into the final stand out of 5 on sunday having straighted 2 stands and carded respectable scores on the others with the potential to card a new personal best. Fluffed the stand with a 6 and finished with a 41. I was more annoyed about that than I was happy about being top gun but ahh well there's always next time. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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