Pigeon Numbers

[Fisherman Mike]

The surveys of British Breeding Birds by the BTO of the last 10 years has shown a fourfold increase in Pigeon numbers in most areas of the GB. and its set to continue with the birds exploiting more and more natural and manmade habitat.

 

Woody is now one of, if not the commonest, of British nesting birds both in town and country. Although suggestions are that the birds do not need to congregate in the same massive flocks we saw in the 60,& 70,s.

 

The reason for this is two fold.

 

1. The mild winters have extended the breeding season to year round with many pairs having several broods.

 

2. The availablity of a local food crop almost year round related to the above has meant brooding successes are unparalleled. many suburban birds now live extensively off of human handouts on bird tables, and congregational flights to isolated crops are a thing of the past

 

Although shooting of the birds has never been carried out in such high numbers with possibly thousands of guns annually shooting Pigeon, it doesnt seem to even dent the population annually and obviuosly shooting is not an effective means of control or crop protection.

 

So feel free to bang away all day over your crops. We are definately depositing more lead into the good soil than was ever lost by all the anglers who ever lived..........sooner or later Defra are going to wise up to this. With abnormal concentrations of lead already been reported in soil samples from arable land, I can see a complete lead ban within 20 years.! Which wont in my opinion be a bad thing........Im lead free already in all my shooting so it wont affect me ..........

 

Thoughts and comments welcomed...

 

Cheers..

 

FM

[Toombsy]

Those are some very interesting statistics and facts mate - thanks

 

I'm with you on the total lead ban, in that I do believe it will happen eventually.

 

I don't want it to happen though. After talking extensively with my father who has been wildfowling for donkey's years and has tried every single alternative - "none of them beat lead" is his verdict.

 

I wouldn't give it 20 years though - I reckon we only have a decade left... and that's why I chose to buy steel proof guns

[Cranfield]

I think most of us have seen the evidence of the population increase of pigeons in the last 10-15 years and mild winters and rape have a lot to do with it.

During the old cold winters , with very little green crop to sustain them, it was quite common to walk the woods in the mornings and find dead birds on the ground with razor thin breasts, that had died in the night.

 

With regard to a compulsory lead shot ban, thats a bit like agreeing that the world will end, its just a matter of when.

In both cases I hope its a long way off.

[Whitebridges]

It makes you wonder what the population of woodies would be if they weren't shot? Would their number just level off, or would they just eat every crop and their numbers go through the roof? I suspect the latter as there are few hard winters to bring the numbers down.

I'm against a lead ban. It kills humanely at a reasonable cost and people can afford to shoot them. Steel just isn't for me i'm afraid. I'm yet to see some proper evidence that lead is damaging when left dormant on land.

I accept the ban on lead shot for fishing as there was a very good alternative available, and the reasons for the ban (killing swans etc.) were proven.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Whitebridges

[Blunderbuss]

Any idea of the estimated UK woodie population? I've heard everything from 5 to 20 million quoted. I also heard Chris Green say that there are 250,000 pigeon shooters in UK, who shot 3 - 5 million birds annually. I've no idea if these figures are in anyway accurate, but it would be interesting to know

[Ozzy Fudd]

wonder what the chances are of getting funding towards a new shotgun and some carts

 

sounds daft but you never know..

 

great info mate, cheers

[Fisherman Mike]

Any idea of the estimated UK woodie population? I've heard everything from 5 to 20 million quoted. I also heard Chris Green say that there are 250,000 pigeon shooters in UK, who shot 3 - 5 million birds annually. I've no idea if these figures are in anyway accurate, but it would be interesting to know

.

 

NO one really knows. BBS surveys by the BTO suggested 2.5 million territories in 2000 thats 5 million birds

 

UK population now is estimated at anything between 12 - 15 million birds European population upwards of 30million pairs perhaps.

 

I would be suprised if we shot 3 - 4 million birds annually and suspect the number is much less than this

[M ROBSON]

I started keeping an record of the birds we shoot last summer, in the 8 week summer period we shoot them we had just over 4800 woodies. It's looking like we will be on track for the same this year.

 

Over the last 2 years we have been shooting very young birds from the start of February, in the 7 years prior we never used to see any till late March at the earliest, even in the mild years.

 

We've been shooting them like this now in our area for 9 years and the numbers have not been effected at all. I've just finished a 3 day spell with a Northern Irish group who shot 680 between 4 of them and fired a hell of a lot of shots!

 

Ready for pickup by the game dealer.

 

This summers running total - 1645 woodies.

 

Mark.

[mossy835]

well i hope the lead ban is a long way off, or many of us will have two buy steel proof guns.

[anser2]

I am surprised that there are more pigeon shooters today than in the past. 30 years ago most farm workers and a lot of other countrymen went pigeon shooting . It was extra meat on the table. Though I suspect with new pigeon shooting equipment I suspect today’s pigeon shooter may well shoot more birds per person than in the past.

 

Today I can go for weeks with out hearing anyone else pigeon shooting in my area of Norfolk , apart from late winter Saturday roost shooting. Even with the roost shooting after the first week end the number of shooters rapidly tail off so after a few weeks I only hear the odd gun.

 

I have turned down a lot of pigeon shooting purely because I do not have the time to cover the ground ( several thousand acres ) I have now which I shoot 3-4 times a week in winter. I am the only regular pigeon shooter on most of my farms. Occasionally one of the farm workers has a go , but its rare. All 3 of my local butchers cant get enough pigeons ( all for local consumption not export and I find a ready market ) .

 

I suspect the lack of shooting pressure has allowed pigeons to start to use gardens. Wood pigeons were an unusual garden bird until a decade ago over much of the country ( except urban areas ) and would flee at the sight of man. Today they are so tame they barely flutter out of my way in the garden.

 

 

Fisherman Mike , your statement "2.5 million territories in 2000 that’s 5 million pairs " cant be right as one pair equal one territory. I suspect you mean 5 million adults.

[Fisherman Mike]

Sorry yes I did mean 5 million adults.... though each territory may contain more than one breeding pair. Particularly in favoured roost woods where birds may nest quite close together.

 

My previous post was wrong also I mean to say 3 to 4 million birds shot not 3/4 of a million and I have ammended this also.

 

Cheers.

 

FM.

[Whitebridges]

I am surprised that there are more pigeon shooters today than in the past. 30 years ago most farm workers and a lot of other countrymen went pigeon shooting . It was extra meat on the table.......

 

Today I can go for weeks with out hearing anyone else pigeon shooting in my area of Norfolk , apart from late winter Saturday roost shooting. Even with the roost shooting after the first week end the number of shooters rapidly tail off so after a few weeks I only hear the odd gun.

 

Surely there were more pigeon shooters years ago? Everyman and his dog used to shoot pigeon. I reckon shooters are just easier to count these days. I don't know whether you'd agree anser but if I recall correctly the first two Saturdays in February for the last 3 years have been windless and poor conditions for roost shooting in North Norfolk. Enthusiam dwindles and the occasional shooter puts his gun away because of poor returns.

In the not to distance past there used to be a cannonade in the area and all copses and woodland used to be manned, sometimes excessively so.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Whitebridges

[mikee]

Surely there were more pigeon shooters years ago? Everyman and his dog used to shoot pigeon. I reckon shooters are just easier to count these days. I don't know whether you'd agree anser but if I recall correctly the first two Saturdays in February for the last 3 years have been windless and poor conditions for roost shooting in North Norfolk. Enthusiam dwindles and the occasional shooter puts his gun away because of poor returns.

In the not to distance past there used to be a cannonade in the area and all copses and woodland used to be manned, sometimes excessively so.

 

 

i absolutely agree, when i was a kid in the late 70's and early 80's when we were pigeon shooting on a saturday in every direction you could hear pigeon shooters, when it came to roost shooting it was a job to get a wood, there seemed to be a gun in every tree almost, now i go out on a saturday and rarely hear other shooting and we couldnt even get enough people in feb to fill all the woods, as for a lead ban, yes it will come but hopefully not for a year or two, but 1oz of steel #4 is enough shell to kill any decoyed pigeon, steel may not be as good for roost shooting, but then again people may let the birds get a bit lower before they shoot, it might put pay to some of the sky busting that takes place in febrary

 

mikee

[anser2]

Whitebridges I agree the weather was not good for roost shooting last winter as we had a run of low wind Saturdays . But in recent years there seem to few and fewer roost shooters. However I do think the number of pigeons shot per shooter has risen sharply. Magnets , quality decoys and good camo clothes has all added to better bags and the increase in rape has brought big numbers togeather .

 

 

I suspect the drop in shooting pressure may be responsible in allowing wood pigeons taming down to a level where they are able to accept human presence in gardens and exploit bird tables.

 

On another point I seem to remember that Dr Murton in his book on pigeons found winter food was the most important factor in winter survival. Shooting had little or no impact on numbers , but Sssshhhh do not tell the farmers.

[anser2]

Mike I do not want to split hairs with you , but a territory means a male showing territorial behaviour , ie cooing \ fighting with other males \ a nest. A female may or may not be present. If 2 pairs of pigeons are nesting close to eachother then that is 2 territories not one shared territory.

 

 

I do territory mapping over a 210 acre wood every spring and there are many occasions when only a single unmated male bird is present. For some species such as dunnock which breed in groups of various combinations from male\female- 2 males \ 1 female - 2 females 1 male up to 3 females and 3 males cohabiting then a number of birds may count as a single territory , but this is not the case for wood pigeons.

Edited August 8, 2009 by anser2