barbel-brad Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Hi guys perhaps you can help at my local clay ground i was advised to when walking or standing with my semi auto to have it empty that makes common sense and i would always do so anyway. However somebody said that you can get a cartridge with a ribbon attached that you load the gun with and it shows to others that the gun is empty of live carts and has a dummy cartridge in it with the ribbon hanging from the gun. If so what is one called and where can i get one did not like to walk into the guns shop and look like a **** hence the question on the forum LOL. Thanks guys in advance Andrew Bradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 The general term is breech flag. Used to show that the breech is clear and open. I think napier make one but any gun shop should sell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbel-brad Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Libs thanks mate Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Or get one of these! Admittingly i had to get it posted from the US,but its still cheap and is plain to see at distance the gun is safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Or you can drill a hole in the side of an empty shell and drag a bit of bright fabric through. Tie a knot on the end, pull the knot back inside the shell and there you have it. In my M2 I find if I put the above in the breech facing the "wrong" way, ie with the brass end to the front I can let the bolt go forward and it locks it in firmly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhunter Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) Or get one of these! Admittingly i had to get it posted from the US,but its still cheap and is plain to see at distance the gun is safe. Definitely better because the ribbon won't come off as the other type do. Sorry, can't remember exactly where I got it(perhaps someone else will) it was from the States I do know. Cost about £6(ish) GH Derrr! Should have clicked the link first Edited August 13, 2009 by Greenhunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 or just sleeve your gun in between stands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 or just sleeve your gun in between stands Thats what I do, unsleeve on the stand and sleeve up straight away after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 The odd time i take my semi auto to the clay ground i use a spent shell with the primer knocked out and some of the ribbon they use on the grounds threaded through and a big knot tied on the inside does a treat total cost nowt.. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 The odd time i take my semi auto to the clay ground i use a spent shell with the primer knocked out and some of the ribbon they use on the grounds threaded through and a big knot tied on the inside does a treat total cost nowt.. :D Just the idea of putting a cartridge into the breech, be it empty, sounds ridiculous. Snap caps are bad enough, but mixing that around in your pocket with live ammo really doesn't sound that good. My tip for taking a semi auto to the clay ground: Don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig5 Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Or get one of these! Admittingly i had to get it posted from the US,but its still cheap and is plain to see at distance the gun is safe. mate thats the best thing i have ever seen for autos ! ive hated them at clays ever since a richard head made a near fatal mistake with 3 cartridges .made me shy away from clubs with auto members. adi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhunter Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 My tip for taking a semi auto to the clay ground: Don't. Or use the saf-t plug I've had loads of positive comments at various clay grounds and all the guys I shoot with have said they appreciate that I go to the trouble to make them feel safe. I couldn't shoot clays if I didn't use a semi auto and I'm not about to stop. Anyway, its the person holding the gun that might be unsafe not the gun. If someone with a S/S or O/U forgets the safety considerations they will be just as much a menace as someone being unsafe with a S/A. I've looked down the dangerous end of many an O/u when the guy has just shot a stand and even though you are pretty sure they've just emptied it I still think its not the right thing to wave it about willy nilly! GH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 That safty plug looks like a great idea. I use the flag type in my pumps, but that looks a lot better. Is anyone in the UK supplying these? Any details on the maker ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB916 Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) I have the Napier type for both my 12 and 20 bore semis, looking at this pic really does not get the guns into perspective, the 20 gauge at the front is only 24 1/2 " barrel and 13" lop whilst the 12 gauge at the back is 30 3/4" barreal and 15" lop: Dave B Edited August 14, 2009 by DaveB916 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusk2dawn Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Hi guys perhaps you can help at my local clay ground i was advised to when walking or standing with my semi auto to have it empty that makes common sense and i would always do so anyway.However somebody said that you can get a cartridge with a ribbon attached that you load the gun with and it shows to others that the gun is empty of live carts and has a dummy cartridge in it with the ribbon hanging from the gun. If so what is one called and where can i get one did not like to walk into the guns shop and look like a **** hence the question on the forum LOL. Thanks guys in advance Andrew Bradley Why not just get a bright yellow case that has been fired and put it sideways in the breech, releasing the action on to it.... simple. Rgds D2D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) I also use the Napier type at the moment in the pumps. but the saf-t bar looks more effective.( and look no feet ) Edited August 14, 2009 by alexr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Just the idea of putting a cartridge into the breech, be it empty, sounds ridiculous. Snap caps are bad enough, but mixing that around in your pocket with live ammo really doesn't sound that good. My tip for taking a semi auto to the clay ground: Don't. It might seem ridiculous to you but just think about it the only part people see is the flag you cannot see the cartridge as the breech is closed.. B) And as for being in your pocket there is a big difference to a live cartridge and an empty one with 9" of flag hanging from it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 There's nothing wrong with semi-autos and pumps at clay grounds, but I prefer to see them sleeved between stands. If someone puts 3 shells up them, they should be banned from the ground permanently, unless it's one of these comps like the Benelli thing where you're allowed 3. In normal clay shooting, 2 is the maximum, if some turkey puts 3 up there, get them off the ground and boot them down the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 There is a problem with pumps at clay grounds. To cycle the action you have to re seat the gun making the second shot more rushed. I speak from experience here. B) I miss a lot more with the second shot from the pump than I do from the O/U or S/S. not that I hit that many any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) I dont like the ribbon type flags, they never seem very easy to get in & out of the gun, also the ribbon usually ends up getting ripped off or melts if fitted to a gun thats very hot. The practical guys use the Boonie Packer Chamber Checker Safety Flag its a Polymer Yellow stick flag because any flag that looks like a real cartridge is banned under IPSC rules, and these flags can be hooked into your pocket with a portion still sticking out & will be easy to insert back into the gun, but best of all they fit anything from .22 upwards & only cost £2.65, bargain ! Available from here.... http://www.midwayuk.com/apps/eproductpage....leItemID=535054 N Edited August 14, 2009 by neil smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 It might seem ridiculous to you but just think about it the only part people see is the flag you cannot see the cartridge as the breech is closed.. B) And as for being in your pocket there is a big difference to a live cartridge and an empty one with 9" of flag hanging from it.. You'd be surprised that mistakes are made. There's a huge difference between a snap cap and a cartridge, but people still blow holes in their ceilings.... To have a closed breech on a clay ground, regardless of the fact there's an orange bit of ribbon hanging from it is a stupid idea. The breech should be open at all times when not shooting, as it's a way of showing that there isn't a cartridge in the gun. I would never walk round happy that people know I'm safe with the breech closed with a bit of ribbon hanging from it. How about I get my over and under, check it's empty, put two snap caps with orange ribbon glued to them and close it, then proceed to waltz around a clay club knowing everyone thinks I'm carrying an unloaded weapon. I think i'd be asked to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Snap caps are bad enough, Hate the things. Am I the only one that cringes when someone whips their gun out at a shoot and ejects 2 snap caps before the first stand? Always makes me think that they got their gun out the cabinet and whacked it straight in the slip without even checking the barrels. FM B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 There is a problem with pumps at clay grounds. To cycle the action you have to re seat the gun making the second shot more rushed. I speak from experience here. B) I miss a lot more with the second shot from the pump than I do from the O/U or S/S. not that I hit that many any way. I speak from experience too I often use a pump at the clay ground. I don't actually shoot much worse than I do with an o/u. It certainly sharpens you up, especially on simo pairs . It amazes me how quickly they can be cycled when you get used to it . I find it makes you get used to shooting clays both earlier and later. Hit the first one quick and by necessity, hit the second one late Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) You'd be surprised that mistakes are made. There's a huge difference between a snap cap and a cartridge, but people still blow holes in their ceilings.... To have a closed breech on a clay ground, regardless of the fact there's an orange bit of ribbon hanging from it is a stupid idea. I also hate dummy cartridges that look like the real thing too, some people get them to practice there loading skills, its an accident waiting to happen, one day a live round will get among them. All of the commercially made chamber flags do not allow the bolt to close & lock, they will always leave the bolt away from the chamber with the flag in between, the problem is the home made flags made from used cartridge shells, they are not designed to hold the bolt face out of battery. The yellow stick flag I posted pictures of earlier looks nothing like a cartridge & prevents the bolt from closing, I think they are hard to beat. N Edited August 14, 2009 by neil smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 You'd be surprised that mistakes are made. There's a huge difference between a snap cap and a cartridge, but people still blow holes in their ceilings.... To have a closed breech on a clay ground, regardless of the fact there's an orange bit of ribbon hanging from it is a stupid idea. The breech should be open at all times when not shooting, as it's a way of showing that there isn't a cartridge in the gun. I would never walk round happy that people know I'm safe with the breech closed with a bit of ribbon hanging from it. How about I get my over and under, check it's empty, put two snap caps with orange ribbon glued to them and close it, then proceed to waltz around a clay club knowing everyone thinks I'm carrying an unloaded weapon. I think i'd be asked to leave. If you read my post correctly you will note i never even mentioned snap caps (hate the bloody things) and even with the bought flags that i have seen the breech is closed to hold it in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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