Nobel 60 powder reloading data

[hopefulcatcher]

Hi Everyone. This is my first posting and like most newcomers, I have been watching the site for some time. My question relates to shotshell reloading, and is probably aimed at the older members. I have just acquired some Nobel 60 reloading powder, and I have been unable to find any loading data. I have data on the 80 series but not the 60, so if anyone can help with some figures it would be much appretiated. I know the origin of the powder and it has been dry stored, and there is no smell, so if I can find some data I am willing to use it. I load 12 ga. 32gm with 70mm cases and plastic wads. Thanks

[Andy H]

Have a word with Floating chamber he has all sorts of data salted away.

[Floating Chamber]

26 grains of Nobel 60, card, fibre wad and 30 grams of lead.

[hopefulcatcher]

Thanks I will try the load suggested by F C

[Floating Chamber]

By the way, you'll need a primer equivalent to a Surefire Cap. A CX50 will do, or a M684.

 

No. 62 is needed for heavier loads up to 36 gram. However, 24.5 grains of 60 and 32 gram was Eley's 'Trapshooting Load'

Edited September 16, 2011 by Floating Chamber

[hopefulcatcher]

Thanks for your help F C. One more thing please. Can I use the old Ely plaswads (Mk 3 and Mk 4) with this load? I aslo have a couple of tins of Surefire primers but not sure if they can be used in a modern case. Many years ago I used to use them in the old Ely Grand Prix case but not sure if they can be used in a modern case. Your advice would be much appreciated.

[Floating Chamber]

Thanks for your help F C. One more thing please. Can I use the old Ely plaswads (Mk 3 and Mk 4) with this load? I aslo have a couple of tins of Surefire primers but not sure if they can be used in a modern case. Many years ago I used to use them in the old Ely Grand Prix case but not sure if they can be used in a modern case. Your advice would be much appreciated.

 

Are they Battery-cup Surefire primers (self-contained with tiny white covered flash-holes), or Surefire 'caps' (little brass and brass or copper inserts?) once called the 1B cap?

[aussie black duck]

I have been using the following with 30 year old Nobel 60 with good results at Trap and skeet.

 

1oz (28 gram)lead shot (#7.5)

Fiocchi low basewad case.

B&P plastic trap wad

Fiocchi 616 primer

20.5 grains Nobel 60 Powder.

Estimated at about 1150 fps @ 3foot.

 

Reliable and consistent in Aussie spring and summer weather temperatures. A tiny bit more muzzle 'smoke' than modern powders.

 

For Handicap and Rabbit shooting I have been using:

 

1-1/8th (32 gram) lead shot (7.5 for trap - #4's for bunnies)

Same components as above but with 19.5 grains of Nobel 60.

 

Clean and effective but probably only about 1100 FPS @ 3ft velocity.

 

If anyone has any data from Nobel 64 for Twenty Gauge and 1oz of shot in straight walled (Federal, Fiocchi, Cheddite etc) case I would very much appreciate it.

Edited December 5, 2011 by aussie black duck

[nabbers]

I'm intrigued, where are you getting 30 yr old powder from??

[Guest cookoff013]

I'm intrigued, where are you getting 30 yr old powder from??

 

a 30 year old retailer?

[aussie black duck]

Re-loading has been on the wane here in Oz for the past 20 years and has really dropped off in the last 7-8 years as the cost savings became very marginal. Components have continued to rise in price but shop bought cartridges have hardly risen to the point where a case of 500 12g Trap/Skeet shells can he had for less than A$130. Reloading with components bought in a store can run out significantly higher than that. Even using the cheapest sources and buying in bulk my component costs work out around A$110 per 500. Every now and then I come across one time re-loaders who have long ago given up and want to get rid of their left over stuff. I am happy to take it off their hands.

On top of that, the owner of the local sports store is a good friend and when he gets old stuff brought in he often gives me a call.

For example, I recently had a gentleman offer me a Mec 600jr loader in good condition. I didn't really need another one (having three already set up for small gauge and using a pair of Mec 650's for 12g and 20g) but the offer came with two big plastic rubbish bags full of wads and 2 and a half 2kg tins of old Nobel powder. For $60 how could I go wrong?

Last year a guy offered me 13,000 Vihtavuori shotgun primers at a not to be refused price with 2 full, sealed tins of Nobel 64 and one of Nobel 60 thrown in. There are the old Square tins that were replaced on the market by a rectangular tin about 30 years ago, just before the 80 series of powders were introduced here in the early 80's! (I also have a few tins of the 80 series tucked away!)

Of course, reloading still has some significant advantages for me:

- I can make the shell I want which I can not readily buy (12g 3/4oz for Skeet practice and Low recoil 1150 fps Trap competition shells)

- Small gauge ammo is still very expensive so I can re-load that at considerable savings.

- I make Sub-sonic field loads for less obtrusive pest control.

- When I can pick up old cheap powder, wads and primers as mentioned, I can save heaps and shoot much more.

Edited December 8, 2011 by aussie black duck

[aussie black duck]

Had a rush of blood to the head today and decided to share this since I have not found any other data for old Nobel Powders on the net.

 

First here is my current stash:

 

 

Most of these are full or nearly full. Some still sealed.

 

Here is a pic of the old square 5lb tins. I recon these would have to be 30+ years old. I have been working through the N60 tin in this photo for my trapshooting with great results. The two N64 tins are still factory sealed!

 

 

Here is that data printed on the back of the tins:

 

Note: The 60 series data was developed for Winchester compression formed hulls which is what ICI/IMI/Eley Australia loaded under their own brand name, and which 99.9% of re-loaders used in the 70's and 80's(Either Eley or Winchester hulls).

Also note that the Eley primer listed is a very mild primer but most reloaders used Vihtavuori, CCI or Winchester primers which were hotter but all about the same as each other. The velocities listed are actually 3 foot measured velocities. The 'monowad' was very similar in performance to the Winchester AA wads and also interchanged at will by many.

For straight walled cases, IMI had been known to recommend upping the powder charge by 1 grain.

 

 

Here is the data from the 80 series tins:

 

Note: The primer is the Vihtavuori which was considered interchangeable with the Win 209 and CCI 209 (and also Fiocchi 616 and NS 686). You will also note that the way the velocities are quoted changed to the UK common way of trying to calculate back to an estimated muzzle velocity (A nonsense if you ask me) and are very optinistic if compared with the older data by about 150fps!

 

 

I hope this is interesting to someone and helps if anyone comes across some old powder in good condition.

Edited December 13, 2011 by aussie black duck

[nabbers]

jeez you have enough powder there to last a lifetime! jealous!

[Floating Chamber]

The HSE would have a field day here in the UK! You'd be locked up forever!

Edited December 14, 2011 by Floating Chamber

[aussie black duck]

Oops!

 

Actually, no worries. We are allowed to properly store up to 20 KG in a 'small scale storage'. More than that and you have to store the rest in another place I guess.

 

Don't worry, I will use most of it up within a year or two. The N60/62/80/82 in 12 gauge trap and field cartridges and the N64/84 in 20 gauge, mostly on skeet. I have emptied at least 4 or 5 other tins of old powder in the last couple of years.

[pinfireman]

Re-loading has been on the wane here in Oz for the past 20 years and has really dropped off in the last 7-8 years as the cost savings became very marginal. Components have continued to rise in price but shop bought cartridges have hardly risen to the point where a case of 500 12g Trap/Skeet shells can he had for less than A$130. Reloading with components bought in a store can run out significantly higher than that. Even using the cheapest sources and buying in bulk my component costs work out around A$110 per 500. Every now and then I come across one time re-loaders who have long ago given up and want to get rid of their left over stuff. I am happy to take it off their hands.

On top of that, the owner of the local sports store is a good friend and when he gets old stuff brought in he often gives me a call.

For example, I recently had a gentleman offer me a Mec 600jr loader in good condition. I didn't really need another one (having three already set up for small gauge and using a pair of Mec 650's for 12g and 20g) but the offer came with two big plastic rubbish bags full of wads and 2 and a half 2kg tins of old Nobel powder. For $60 how could I go wrong?

Last year a guy offered me 13,000 Vihtavuori shotgun primers at a not to be refused price with 2 full, sealed tins of Nobel 64 and one of Nobel 60 thrown in. There are the old Square tins that were replaced on the market by a rectangular tin about 30 years ago, just before the 80 series of powders were introduced here in the early 80's! (I also have a few tins of the 80 series tucked away!)

Of course, reloading still has some significant advantages for me:

- I can make the shell I want which I can not readily buy (12g 3/4oz for Skeet practice and Low recoil 1150 fps Trap competition shells)

- Small gauge ammo is still very expensive so I can re-load that at considerable savings.

- I make Sub-sonic field loads for less obtrusive pest control.

- When I can pick up old cheap powder, wads and primers as mentioned, I can save heaps and shoot much more.

Just read this....I hope you are still reloading! Like you, I hunt around for remnants of powder, wads etc....it makes my shells very cheap!

[saddler]

Got some Nobel paperwork relating to the change from 60 series to the then new 80 series.

 

Good to see I'm not the only one interested in the older Nobel products

[Feltwad]

I still load old nitro powder the favorite one is Greenbat mainly because it is loaded with Drm measure the same has black powder , Nobel 60 ,72, and 80 were all good powders also the older ones Smokeless Diamond and Shultze

Feltwad

[Guest cookoff013]

this topic is nearly a decade old.

[matone]

necropowder ?

 

lol

[aussie black duck]

I just noticed my previously posted pictures have gone with the demise of the free image shack.

 

Here is the photo again of the Nobel 60 tin load data from the Australian packaging:

 

 

Nobel 80 series data from a tin:

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by aussie black duck

[lksopener]

Thanks for this Aussie black duck, added to my stash.

[aussie black duck]

Just read this....I hope you are still reloading! Like you, I hunt around for remnants of powder, wads etc....it makes my shells very cheap!

 

Yes, still load a bit, but mainly only in small gauge or subsonic these days. Not even close to worth it for 12G Clay shooting or hunting (except sub-sonics). Because of this I am still working my way through those old tins of N64 for 20G skeet and field loads from the original post. That powder must be getting closer to 40 years old now and still no sign of deterioration or loss of performance!

 

Powder and primer prices have gone through the roof, but Lead shot is the killer. If I could be bothered making my own shot from scrap lead it would still be economical to reload, at least for skeet.

[aussie black duck]

Got some Nobel paperwork relating to the change from 60 series to the then new 80 series.

 

Good to see I'm not the only one interested in the older Nobel products

 

 

Is it possible to share that with us? I would love to read what they said back then.

 

Cheers, ABD

[Floating Chamber]

I have the Official pink reloading card somewhere. I used the 60 series in the early 1960s; the 80 series were more bulky and less dense.