foggy11 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Just a heads up to ..... There seem to be quite a few threads about this on many forums.... So i thought some might find this interesting.... http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/qa/139480/Are_...hells_safe.html Cheers,.... Nik.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 mine does it regular regardless off manufacturer , and it happens regularly on every .17 I know of it does not eefect the accuracy so I aint bothered one little bit KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 shows their expert isn't that expert, it's been happening for years though some rifles do it more than others. I've never really noticed it except for one round that split down the side and wedged in the chamber but thats one out of a few thoousand and hasn't happened since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin vs Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I get them regularly I only use Hornady, it's only a nuisance when an empty case gets stuck, otherwise i'm not bothered. I emailed C.C.I. with pictures and they assured me there was nothing to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anschutz.17hmr Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 never noticed any,only use remington but told they all come from same factory,maybe its the chambers are not built to the same tolerances on all rifles!i,ll clean empties off pick up floor and have a look at them or maybe wife will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 never noticed any,only use remington but told they all come from same factory,maybe its the chambers are not built to the same tolerances on all rifles!i,ll clean empties off pick up floor and have a look at them or maybe wife will thats the crux, start looking and you will find? I had never even thought about split cases till I read somewhere that it was happening to others, and as I am a tidy old hector I had a tupperware box full of spent shells so went through them and found about 30 out of a thousand or so split, had I never read about it I still would not be aware they split, but like I said before read up on it its a common thing and not a concern. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 17HMR and 17 MK II regularly split. As a rimmed cartridge they headspace on the rim, they are also a bottleneck cartridge and these should headspace on the shoulder. Cases are made to minimum dimensions chambers are usually larger, hence on firing the shoulder moves forward to fill the excess space . Thin brass means many cases split. Put vernier calipers on fired and unfired cases to see the differences in size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 I seriously think it's down to the rifle, not the case. I've put thousands and thousands of rounds through my .17 and never had a split case. The photos all seem to show a consistent fail point in the case, which really would say that your rifle has got room in the chamber to allow this to occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I recover umpteen of mine - used in my Quad and have never found a split one. I recently switched from remmies to Hornady blue tips and still no splitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Its got SOD all to to with "the rifle" here is the official answer from Hornady Cheers KW The 17 HMR cases may crack because of the annealing process when they are made. The annealing process is what makes the material brittle or flexible depending on the length of time and degree of the process. This is a precise procedure with any other case that can be reloaded, as we want the case to be hard enough to do the job but soft enough to stand up to several reloads. The 17 HMR case is dispensable and can not be reloaded, therefore the annealing procedure isn't quite as strict as with other cases. When the case cracks, it's because the neck was annealed a little harder than it needed to be, making it more brittle. This does not affect the accuracy or performance of the ammunition. Normally, the fired case will eject the same as any other, and unless they are picked up later, the shooter may never even know they had a case with a split neck. We would prefer that none of the cases split, (and the majority of them don't), but it seems redundant to spend the time and money on perfecting the case when it isn't practical or necessary. Our lab has evaluated cases with cracked necks, and the powder is fine, the case necks are just more brittle. I hope that answers your questions. Please feel free to contact one of our techs who are much more familiar with our bullets, cases and ammunition than I am. Most of our technical personnel are at the Grand in Ohio this week, but will be back next week. They can be contacted by email at webmaster@hornady.com or by phone at 1-800-338-3220. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Well kdubya, my brother and I regularly shoot in the passenger side of each others vehicles and eject the cases into the car. These get picked up and neither my quad - nor his Annie produce split cases. I have to say it does seem something to do with a rifle that has so many splitters mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 If you think it's sod all to do with the rifle, why do all the photos above show consistent fracture marks? If it was just the case, there would be some that cracked in other places or all the way down the case. I'd be interested to see what guns the people are shooting, who are having this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I have also shot many hundred if not thousands from my CZ and I have never seen a split case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I have also shot many hundred if not thousands from my CZ and I have never seen a split case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 If you think it's sod all to do with the rifle, why do all the photos above show consistent fracture marks? If it was just the case, there would be some that cracked in other places or all the way down the case. I'd be interested to see what guns the people are shooting, who are having this issue. Look *** the answer was from hornady NOT me they did the tests!! they stated its the annealing and that it affected the NECKS? if you can be bothered to do a search of the yank forums you will see this has been an ongoing issue for a number of years even to the point that a safety notice was issued about the use of the .17 hmr round in semi auto's due to the cases splitting as a result of "bad brass" Owners of remmington, savage, marlin, cz, anshutz,etc etc have reported split cases so hornady did the tests and gave you your answer. If you feel they are wrong and that you know better please feel free to take the issue up with hornady the contact number is in the reply I posted cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 oh and those with CZ who have never seen one well you lucky, or not looking? loads of cz owners have reported splits this is a post off a yank shooting forum from a lad bothered enough to contact CZ cheers KW Thanks for the help everyone. I called cz yesterday and they say nothing is wrong with the gun but that its the cases. They say they cases split because they can not be annealled after they neck them down and that is what causes the splitting. They told me some lots of ammo will split more than other lots of ammo because of the brass. Makes the .22 mag look better and better lol. Thanks again for the help everyone. Dink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Look *** the answer was from hornady NOT me they did the tests!! they stated its the annealing and that it affected the NECKS? if you can be bothered to do a search of the yank forums you will see this has been an ongoing issue for a number of years even to the point that a safety notice was issued about the use of the .17 hmr round in semi auto's due to the cases splitting as a result of "bad brass" Owners of remmington, savage, marlin, cz, anshutz,etc etc have reported split cases so hornady did the tests and gave you your answer. If you feel they are wrong and that you know better please feel free to take the issue up with hornady the contact number is in the reply I posted cheers KW Let me just go and get my handbag. I didn't realise you were so sensitive over this issue. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and what I said is mine. I'm not going to ring any rimfire ammo manufacturer, as I am not suffering with a problem with split cases. Why not borrow someone elses rifle who isn't having this problem and run your batch through them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Look its not a case of handbags its just bad or missinformation is worse than none? what for instance would happen if say one of the lads on this thread had reported that he had noticed some split casings, then he went on to sell the gun only for the new owner to "notice the odd split" and then seemingly finding out that he must have been sold the gun by an owner who knew it was faulty? And as someone had posted on a thread in an open forum that the GUN must be faulty, he then demanded his money back? when infact in truth the reason was well known and documented over a number of years and not a fault of the gun at all. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 not to wade in but it does seem some guns do it more than others and indeed some ammo can do it more than others. I've been looking through my empties and I've not found any in the last couple of hundred I've used but they are all one batch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin vs Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I only first noticed the splitt cases after one got stuck in the breech, when I realised what was happening I weny through a few hundred previously spent cases, as I keep them in the pocket of my car, if that one case hadn't got stuck I would never have known, and I would be one of the people saying it never happened to me.There's no big deal about it happening, two of my friend's have found split cases as well, one is using an Anschutz, the other han a C.Z., and i'm using a Marlin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 If you are lucky enough to get a minimum spec chamber you will have very few split cases. Brittle brass will split when it has some place to expand to. Pacific Tool and Gauge offer minimum spec reamers for the 17HMR and 17MkII to correct this perceived problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) Its got SOD all to to with "the rifle" here is the official answer from Hornady I think this is what got you the replies kdubya. The bold bit is your opinion - and one you are of course entitled to mate. I'm not being rude, but to those of us who have not had the problem it clearly looks like a chamber problem that we don't suffer from. I doubt the bullet producers will concede a problem with them - nor the producers of the rifles affected. Edited October 5, 2009 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think this is what got you the replies kdubya. The bold bit is your opinion - and one you are of course entitled to mate. I'm not being rude, but to those of us who have not had the problem it clearly looks like a chamber problem that we don't suffer from. I doubt the bullet producers will concede a problem with them - nor the producers of the rifles affected. er the bullet producers have conceded a problem hence the reply from hornady? KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 But the problem isn't with all rifles or all ammunition is it? So if your rifle like mine doesn't give split cases then there is no issue with either is there? However if your rifle has a sloppy chamber and is allowing the cases to expand so much that they are splitting then surely it is a problem with "Your Rifle" However as Hornady have admitted to a problem with their brass then obviously it must happen to every single person who uses Hornady ammunition. I use Remington in mine and as I have already said I do not have that problem. However as all .17HMR ammo is made in the same factory then there shouldn't be a difference between any of them should there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 it would appear some chambers are slacker than others which causes the issue however, the ammo is prone to splitting if it has the room to do so and as it doesn't affect the bullets performance the manufacturers just say it can happen. Mine doesn't do it with Hornady as a vice versa but as long as it doesn't affect accuracy and you don't want the cases to re-load there isn't a problem or is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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