Is a gun dangerous?

[Dave 101]

There definitely needs,obviously to be a way of assessing the suitability for someone to own a gun.Hopefully the harmless ones with a bout of depression due to lifes pressures will be differentiated from those with anger issues who have a low threshold for violence.I think we all know someone who really ought not to have a gun but could charm an FEO into granting a ticket. These types I doubt go to the GP for help so would be more difficult to detect. They could equally use a knife or a baseball bat but a gun does give them a really good tool to do the job if they so wish.

 

 

There could be a way and that would be a compulsary probationary and training period before being granted an FAC or SGC .

This is done already if someone wishes to join a club to pursue target shooting , but for those that wish to shoot vermin there arent any safety nets out there , I remember reading on another forum a couple of years ago about someone who had been granted an FAC for a .17 cal rifle , his boasting of going out and firing 600 rounds to get it zeroed and his antics with it left me with the thought that compulsary training was required in this instance .

I know in 99.99 per cent of shooters are completely safe and do receive mentoring in one form or another , at least with a probationary period at a club the odd ball can be sussed out , as inthe case of the Dunblane killer , a club refused to have him , police doubted his suitability to have an FAC but he knew someone higher up the ladder in the police , as we now know it went pear shaaped .

 

The trouble is who is going to ***** all new applicants , who is going to bear the cost of it ?

 

From my experiance in clubs probationary periods work well because you get to know that person and hopefully they become a friend a member of a group .

 

Lets hope that the application system remains as it is and the FEOs do their job becaus it all comes down to them if they choose to refuse the issue of a certificate or license .

 

Safety is down to the nut behind the butt as they say .

 

Dave

[wrightchopper]

So sorry for your loss, its good you kept shooting though, "guns are dangerous" ? on their own, NO ! its the human behind it, look at road deaths each year, humans behind steering wheels seem to think they can do what speed and drive dangerously when and where they like, just because they have a licence, thank god most of them dont own shotguns, i think as shooters we learn to respect what a gun will and can do, well most of us do ! i still feel very priviledged to hold a SGC and to carry and shoot a gun, i think the word im looking for is "Respect", respect what a gun can and could do in the wrong hands. I think what frenchie touched on is true, i suffered from depression for a while, it dosen't mean im mad, how the FEO's grant SGC must be so difficult, in my case i was quizzed for quite a while, but he was satisfied i wasn't a risk, i'd like to think if i was i wouldn't have applied. not really sure i answered the question, but a good topic anyway ! Again, so sorry for your loss.

[lordhardup]

First off I think I have to say that it is not the gun but the person behind it that can be a danger, the same way that a car wont kill someone unless it is being driven.

Secondly I know of someone who had a bad fall and had to have a brain op, once he had recoverd he was certified as sane, now he cant get an FAC because the police say that if he is sane now, that he must have been insane before so he can not have a firearm.

 

He was then and is now just a normal fellow like you and me, except we can go shooting and he is limited to an air rifle.

 

You tell me how fair that is.

 

PS.

 

If life is getting you down and your feeling a bit low, tell your doctor and bang goes you right to shoot ( you can still drive your car). If your having problems at home with the wife or struggling to control your teenager and ask the police to look after your guns till the problems sorted, being law abiding as you are and not wanting to risk your FAC because your wayward child or drunken partner has the police calling at your door....

 

Now try and get your guns back.

 

What do you think your chances are?

[hookbones]

this type of thing is tragic no matter what the circumstances... as far as the answers ur getting im afraid ppl will respond on this forum in a very gun defensive way <the response of "its bullets not guns" is pathetic tbh.. like saying falling off a building wont kill u its the floor> both guns and ppl are dangerous ..

 

.....iv had loaded primed air guns pointed at my head in the shop by ppl showing me that its got a pellet stuck in, iv had my own brother turn round to ask me why the safety didnt come on with 2 in the spout and the gun closed..i looked straight down the barrels and his finger was on the trigger "i assure the `its bullets not guns ppl` he near got his ****in head caved in with my EMPTY gun" add to these all the guns that have blown/misfired/chain fired/bulged ect ect n u see that yes even in responsible hands harm can befall us all... im pro gun and have shot safely for many many years without a problem as has the majority here,but when i pick up that gun i have in mind just what it can do as should ever1... yes cars,dogs,knives,hammers,matches or whatever is also dangerous but the question here is are guns! oh n 1 more thing its not always bullets...when i was young a friend killed his self by accident with a blank.!

 

.its a nobrainer that no1 on here would leave a child unattended with 1 would they

[Ozzy Fudd]

I was under the impression that it has long been established that infact Rappers Do.

 

On a serious note though, guns are massivly dangerous, if not for what they can/have/will do, but for the stigma that goes with them. Yobbos don't carry bricks/spades/hammers, its knifes&guns, the things that have the fear stigma attached.

 

I think its the concentration of energy that can be focused at a distant objects that make guns so dangerous, nothing else can do what a gun does, you can only throw a knife so far!

 

what about a crossbow then? :blink:

 

guns are not dangerous until you add the human factor. a gun will not load itself, point itself at someone and shoot them, no more than a car can fill itself full of petrol, start its engine and aim towards a bus stop. i have never been afraid of guns as some people that have posted seem to be, my first memory is of finding my dad's ppw (.44 smith and wesson) when i was 3 yrs old, he was just back from a patrol and left the gun and his vest lying behind the sofa. there was also a walther .22 in the house for mum to use if necessary, and combat shotguns/assault rifles/sub machine guns on a regular basis, depending which friends were visiting. nearly every relatives house had a gun sitting about in it, usually easy to get to in a hurry there was no special significance attached to them - they were guns, they were there, that was it. but the one thing that i was always taught was that its the person who is holding the gun that you have to be wary of, not the gun itself.

[unclemicky]

this type of thing is tragic no matter what the circumstances... as far as the answers ur getting im afraid ppl will respond on this forum in a very gun defensive way <the response of "its bullets not guns" is pathetic tbh.. like saying falling off a building wont kill u its the floor> both guns and ppl are dangerous ..

.....iv had loaded primed air guns pointed at my head in the shop by ppl showing me that its got a pellet stuck in, iv had my own brother turn round to ask me why the safety didnt come on with 2 in the spout and the gun closed..i looked straight down the barrels and his finger was on the trigger "i assure the `its bullets not guns ppl` he near got his ****in head caved in with my EMPTY gun" add to these all the guns that have blown/misfired/chain fired/bulged ect ect n u see that yes even in responsible hands harm can befall us all... im pro gun and have shot safely for many many years without a problem as has the majority here,but when i pick up that gun i have in mind just what it can do as should ever1... yes cars,dogs,knives,hammers,matches or whatever is also dangerous but the question here is are guns! oh n 1 more thing its not always bullets...when i was young a friend killed his self by accident with a blank.!

 

.its a nobrainer that no1 on here would leave a child unattended with 1 would they

 

Hookbones I'm with you mate , well said , :blink:

[groach1234]

this type of thing is tragic no matter what the circumstances... as far as the answers ur getting im afraid ppl will respond on this forum in a very gun defensive way <the response of "its bullets not guns" is pathetic tbh.. like saying falling off a building wont kill u its the floor> both guns and ppl are dangerous ..

 

.....iv had loaded primed air guns pointed at my head in the shop by ppl showing me that its got a pellet stuck in, iv had my own brother turn round to ask me why the safety didnt come on with 2 in the spout and the gun closed..i looked straight down the barrels and his finger was on the trigger "i assure the `its bullets not guns ppl` he near got his ****in head caved in with my EMPTY gun" add to these all the guns that have blown/misfired/chain fired/bulged ect ect n u see that yes even in responsible hands harm can befall us all... im pro gun and have shot safely for many many years without a problem as has the majority here,but when i pick up that gun i have in mind just what it can do as should ever1... yes cars,dogs,knives,hammers,matches or whatever is also dangerous but the question here is are guns! oh n 1 more thing its not always bullets...when i was young a friend killed his self by accident with a blank.!

 

.its a nobrainer that no1 on here would leave a child unattended with 1 would they

 

I was trying to be pedantic when i said that about the bullets killing and as you say i consider an unloaded gun perfectly safe but wouldn't be giving it to my little cousin to play with. I have had people with a closed gun over there arm swing around to face me with both barrels pointing am my legs at which point i swiftly moved and they realised why but sore it as okay as the safety was on :blink: at the end of the day when ever i have a loaded gun in my hands i am always thinking where my barrels are pointing and that the shot is clear after all guns can be perfectly safe but safety catches can fail as can a firing pin but i do believe a gun is a perfectly safe object it is the person who alters this.

 

George

[pyr8]

you can,t legislate against lunatics.

[fullbore]

1 both guns and ppl are dangerous ..

 

.....iv had loaded primed air guns pointed at my head in the shop by ppl showing me that its got a pellet stuck in, iv had my own brother turn round to ask me why the safety didnt come on with 2 in the spout and the gun closed..i looked straight down the barrels and his finger was on the trigger "i assure the `its bullets not guns ppl` he near got his ****in head caved in with my EMPTY gun" add to these all the guns that have blown/misfired/chain fired/bulged ect ect n u see that yes even in responsible hands harm can befall us all... im pro gun and have shot safely for many many years without a problem as has the majority here,but when i pick up that gun i have in mind just what it can do as should ever1... yes cars,dogs,knives,hammers,matches or whatever is also dangerous but the question here is are guns! oh n 1 more thing its not always bullets...when i was young a friend killed his self by accident with a blank.!

 

.its a nobrainer that no1 on here would leave a child unattended with 1 would they

 

! only when dangerous people and guns are brought together.

The rest of your post just reenforces that all those people you mention in your post shouldn't even be in the same county as guns, never mind in the same room. I have an old shotgun that has lived merrily unusd and untouched in my cabinet for years. It has not been dangerous in all that time, and nor will it be.

[Mr Potter]

you can,t legislate against lunatics.

 

Quite right and you can't legislate against politicians who think they can. Following Hungerford & Dunblaine politicians legislated and, in reality, only managed to punish the innocent, previously legitimate gun owner.

 

One of the problems is I suppose ignorance by both the non-shooting public and the politicians but the other problem is that guns are very efficient at what they are designed for - killing things. Thats why Hamilton could walk into that school and within a very few minutes kill all those poor innocent children. Yes he could have done the same by other means but the weapon he used was designed to do what it, in his hands, eventually did! The death toll was very unlikely to have been as high if he'd been armed with a knife, a brick or even a chair leg.

 

After any sort of disaster, certainly man-made and even most natural disasters as well, you have the press demanding that "this should never be allowed to happen again" and the politicians (always mindful of the next election) promising that it wont. Hurried legislation is invariably makes bad laws that aren't effective but "they" have been seen to have cured the problem cos it hasn't happened again has it? The fact that these events are 1 in a 100 or even 1 in a 1000 year occurrences is forgotten, it was that law we passed and by the way vote for me, I save lives :blink:

 

Other than the outright ban on target shooting pistols I think we in the UK have got it about right. I'd hate to see US style gun laws, no private individual needs a machine gun or a SLR, hand grenades, cannons et al.

 

A complex and emotive subject and I don't fear the future because as sure as eggs is eggs sometime in the future a deranged licensed gun owner will commit an atrocity that involves loss of a number of lives and we will suffer the backlash. It might be this year, next year or not for twenty years but it will happen and we will suffer.

 

Mr Potter

[fullbore]

Other than the outright ban on target shooting pistols I think we in the UK have got it about right. I'd hate to see US style gun laws, no private individual needs a machine gun or a SLR, hand grenades, cannons et al.

 

 

I concur, apart from the fact that it is possible to own cannons in the UK, mate has one on his SGC smoothbore up to 2" anyone can have on SGC

[Ladygun]

CRB check is much more likely to identify people who who should not have guns than the medical profession. The best guide to future violence is previous violence, whether you have mental disorder or not. GPs do not know their patients like they used to, and most doctors know next to nothing about guns. Neither do most GPs have the expertise to evaluate the kind of personality disorder, psychosis or depression which make someone dangerous in the short term or the long term. Having been a psychiatrist for nearly 30 years I would have reasonable confidence in carrying out this sort of work but would not be too keen on the possibility of retribution from anyone about whom I was less than positive!

 

No doubt none of us want to be regulated and monitored any more than we are already (us medics are having to get used to it thanks to Harold Shipman) unfortunately that's the current trend across many areas. BASC are always responding to restrictive proposals - with some success apparently.

[humperdingle]

Dangerous or unstable people will do damage whether they have a gun in their hands or not... Baseball bats... knives... A match... claw hammer... Fists... The list of "Dangerous objects" is endless.

 

Guns were originally built as a killing tool, of course, so yes, they are inherently dangerous in the wrong hands - Particularly at long range.

 

Of course a gun can't pick itself up and shoot someone, so I'd have to say it's the holder of the weapon who's dangerous.

[joeainscow]

I never thought this question would raise such interest. I thought it would be an open shut case of guns are safe.

 

Joe

[fullbore]

CRB check is much more likely to identify people who who should not have guns than the medical profession. The best guide to future violence is previous violence, whether you have mental disorder or not. GPs do not know their patients like they used to, and most doctors know next to nothing about guns. Neither do most GPs have the expertise to evaluate the kind of personality disorder, psychosis or depression which make someone dangerous in the short term or the long term. Having been a psychiatrist for nearly 30 years I would have reasonable confidence in carrying out this sort of work but would not be too keen on the possibility of retribution from anyone about whom I was less than positive!

 

No doubt none of us want to be regulated and monitored any more than we are already (us medics are having to get used to it thanks to Harold Shipman) unfortunately that's the current trend across many areas. BASC are always responding to restrictive proposals - with some success apparently.

 

 

Hello Professor, just one flaw in your argument, the FIRST episode of violence may occur, AFTER they become license holders. Everybody has to start somewhere. And what about those who have turned over a new leaf (like a previous poster) or do you ot believe in rehabilitatio, which, if that is the case, calls into question some of your collegues who free patients from Broadmoor and the like decreeing them as fit to live in society

[mpk]

A gun is only a tool.

 

It is only as dangerous as the next tool. All of them used incorrectly can kill. Spades, Axe's, Hammers, Cars, Aeroplanes etc...

 

more people will be killed in a car accident than by legal and illegally held firearms in a year (not got proof of that but im certain it will be the case) Yet we dont hold the same fear when driving a car/walking down the street as we do when shooting or being around people with firearms.

 

 

 

totaly agree and if your drunk in possesion of a car and you hit someone you loose your license for say 3 years ?(correct me if im wrong ) in possesion of a firearm while legitimently shooting pigeons (police reports shooting times) licence and guns gone straight away !!!!!!!!! peoples misconseptions that were all gone toting gangsters scares me . I think were a lovely bunch us .

[Ricko]

Hello Joe,

this has certainly been an interesting discussion.

I am sorry for your family's loss.

My great-uncle died in a shooting accident so we have always been very concious about weapon handling/storage etc.

Common sense is the main approach that is needed

Basic weapon handling rules and keeping the weapons out of sight are the starting points

As i said this has been very interesting to read

Cheers